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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jul 13, 2006 - 11:01pm PT
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Ed,
What do yuo mean spyders are programs? I do not no very much about pro-gramming. Can one write said programs with eight legs that can walk around on a web. I would like to write one that could tesst my troll-hypothesis question as it purtains to identies. How much would I have to learn to due this?
I think you mentioned that you speek pearl. I think pearls are great for necklaces. But I think that you must mean some other kind. Where can I learn about your type of perils?
Can these spiders figure out who trolls are or the reel name of posters? Can said posters counter said webs by imposturization. Is it harder to learn then teaching would-be future nurses?
Lois
PS. Russ, a #2 pencil will not help. Besides I fear you would cheat on the test, because I believe that you may have a close relationship with someone named Sue - not a boy, either.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jul 13, 2006 - 11:52pm PT
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Now Lois, there you go again. Asking questions that you know that I won't answer. So why do you even ask?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 13, 2006 - 11:58pm PT
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TIG + Booze = Rimjob
For the record: I don't cheat
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 14, 2006 - 12:02am PT
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Janet,
You should ask some of those guys over in the Slab Climbing thread. Hear they are all wearing them these days.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 14, 2006 - 12:12am PT
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Careful there Russ, I will sick Bolton on your ass. And you know that at times you have been heavier than any of us ever get. What we need are canes man, and nurses, in pretty french maid costumes, to help us get around in our old age.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 14, 2006 - 12:17am PT
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Busted by Shorty!!!
Too bad I won't be out with the boys this weekend in Whitney... I think Bolton is lactating anyway.
Was on crutches and a cane last week and my nurse is coming in tomorrow... what else do I need???
Edit: just saw this part..... And you know that at times you have been heavier than any of us ever get.
Are you calling 5'9" and 216 heavy????? I've been told I carry it well though... and I have big bones.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 14, 2006 - 01:08am PT
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"Her "style" of entering a new group is so classically female. She is a bit timid but she is overall quite friendly and she takes "small steps" choosing her words carefully. That *screams* "female."
-That's what I did when I first came here...
..Good God, I Am Lois!
That's why she didn't wish me a happy b-day. I'm no longer miffed.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 14, 2006 - 01:14am PT
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Big Pants?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 14, 2006 - 01:17am PT
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...this is a wierd thread... even for me.
Spiders, web crawlers, bots, etc... are a class of programs designed to extract information from the web.
Think of the web as an interconnection of disks which extend your own computer's disks, then a web crawler, or spider, is just a utility that searches the disks for something you have specified. Various systems (Mac OS, Windows, etc) have these local search utilities, a web browser is another sort of search, a spider is something more elaborate, and may involve higher level functions in terms of processing the information and presenting in a somewhat different form.
A spider I have been thinking of writing would go out and get the images from the Awahnee Meadows web cam and store them so that I can make time lapse movies of Yosemite Valley. I was thinking of doing this for a whole year... one image every 2 minutes, 525,600 images, at 40 frames per second that's a 3.7 hour movie... probably would like to have some editing.
Anyway, there is a lot of people interested in writing these sorts of things, and many clever applications created in a number of computer languages. But you need to be able to grok the languages. A way which makes this accessible is to provide a graphical interface with a number of options, a "Chinese menu" sort of thing (one from column A, etc..)
Such a utility exists if you have Java on your machine (which you probably do)... check out the URL: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rcm/websphinx/ I haven't used this but it looks like it might be fun. There are many links, some of which have to do with "robot ethics"... however, many links are stale...
There are other resources, this one from Sun about using Java: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/ThirdParty/WebCrawler/
A Google search will get you lots of hits which you can browse through and see what makes sense to you... doing a Google Scholar search will show you that the academic aspects of bot research is active, though this body of work may be a bit arcane, sounds like you wanta have fun rather than get all intellectual about it... but a nice paper from 1995 gives you an idea of just how good predicting this sort of thing is (not very) http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/etzioni/papers/ieee-expert.pdf
LEB, did you read the Wikipedia entry on bots? did you follow the links? it is really quite informative. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_crawler
You also asked: "Ed, I think we need you here. How can we set up tests to definitively prove who is NOT who - the null hypothesis as it were? Obviously, just like in "real" science we can never prove that something *is* true just set up a p-value which is impressive enough to warrant said conclusion. Can "spiders" be employed to test null hypotheses concerning identities here? Would we have to do, instead, a qualitative analysis? Please advise and PLEASE talk more about spiders. "
I had addressed this in a rather oblique way once before. The question is essentially a variant of the "Turing test", perhaps even more complicated since we are assuming that the avatar is a real person, just assuming an identity. It would be difficult to prove this using a statistical test, though the bot could be written to do something like this.
I might be able to write one watching your activities on the net, for instance, it would have to be rather complex. But you leave trails behind, and those trails could be sensed and some analysis might arrive at a hypothesis. This would be horrendously time consuming, and ultimately of little real value. The discovery being just an ego trip, as is writing an avatar with a fictional personal history to obtain particular response from a group of people...
...I prefer to take the posts at "face value" and pick which I will respond to in terms of interacting with the larger community. Then the actual source of the question or idea or conversation is really irrelvant.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 14, 2006 - 01:27am PT
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LEB, I was just joshing with you, but thanks, I do appreciate that.
Turing, spiders, can black I.C.E. be far behind?
T*R, I didn't like PE either. I only became athletic (in the limited sense that I ever was) after it ceased to be compulsory.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:38am PT
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Ed- that one is now book marked. But, I have another riddle, I think it's originally from Alice in wonderland, but it was also in Twin Peaks, and I've avoided googling;
"How is a Raven Like a Writing desk?"
I suspect there is no answer and it is one of those (One hand clapping) zen master bonks your head with a bamboo stick things.
Lois, that riddle ( and the other ones I alluded to) is in the revered tradition of the 'Mini- Mystery' popular around campfires and in such traditonal ritual areas as; "The caf," and the 'four diseases" ( I'm going for a pg rating, folks)
The way it works is that questioners can ask 'yes or no' answerable questions about the situations and eventually decipher the riddle.
I cannot give you the answer. The fish knows the answer, and gave some strong hints couched in playful, innate nastiness. It's not perverse in the way he said.
On a more somber note though, it was interesting what you said about birthday greetings. I have no problem saying Happy B-day to most anyone, but when those posts come up about people dying, I agonize over what is an approppriate response, especially if i didn't know the person. I want to say the right thing, but really worry about how it's going to sound, weird, eh? But kinda like what you were saying.
"5.9, 216"
Mr T, in his prime, was 5.10 217
EDIT™ There is a phrase dictionary called --"There is a word for that."
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:40am PT
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I pity the fool that is 5.9 216
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:59am PT
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Look I do like the patients messing up their rooms. MAKE SURE THEY TAKE THEIR THORAZINE!!!!!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 14, 2006 - 12:07pm PT
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added Tarbuster, Happiegrrrl and Dingus to the plot..
my simple analysis is that TB is about an hour ahead of the westies, he's in mountain time, and Happie is a late riser/poster, but still a couple of hours ahead.
Dingus posts in the morning and keeps his evenings STF free, good on him!
LEB, you are amazingly west coast in your posting habits, I could do a K-S test, but common sense says it's so
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:19pm PT
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last bit, added Crimpergirl and Locker... Crimpie gets up early in St. Lois which is central time I believe, and Locker doesn't get going 'till late, in fact, he is the anti-Dingus...
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:56pm PT
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Ed:
I really love the figure you generated. And you are correct, I am in the Central Time Zone.
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johnx01
Trad climber
UK
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Jul 14, 2006 - 04:41pm PT
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Fascinating...........
I've lurked as long as DMT has posted, my points of trigonometry are some guys from comp.sys.unix, DMT, Lord Slime and Brutus from rec.climbing. I've navigated far points of the internet, fought flame wars on death sites at the outer known limits of the 8-byte ascii char set. Yet I return here and am adrift....... cut loose from my foundations. What does DMT see here in LEB that I don't see?
I download LEB's posts, syntactically break them down, data mine, pattern match, seek hidden messages, there is nothing there...... yet DMT and all his years is unsettled, it's like watching the devil reflected in an antique piece of pewter, what is it, damm you Dingus!
Then like a diamond bullet through the brain it hits me....., there is a geographic connection, there is a temporal association.
DMT and LEB were lovers, LEB was scorned by a youtful Dingus, the stage was set, the cards were dealt. LEB has searched this world inside out to haunt this man, to make him acknowledge his wrong doing.
Ladies and gentlemen, stand back, this is personal.........
Whadya think, am I getting warm?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 15, 2006 - 01:16am PT
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Well, it took about ten seconds, but the monkey's paw story is quite famous. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey's_Paw
Perhaps it is the story you remember?
Anders
ps My old nom de plume will continue working, but only in threads to which I'd already posted under it. Otherwise, the Mighty Hiker will be it.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 15, 2006 - 01:49am PT
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LEB - I only said you had west coast habits.. the tone of your post seems to assume I am questioning your identity; not what I said at all.
There is no theorem or proof regarding whether or not an identity can be verified by statistical means. Within just the universe of the STForum it would be hard to do. However, much of what we talk about here exists in the real world, the climbing that is, and so we get to understand each other through these shared experiences.
I have met many of the SuperTopians, sometimes through the Forum.. so I can vouche for their existence, and they mine. If we never meet, or never meet someone who has met us, then we cannot know who you are, really, except through what you represent here on the Forum.
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