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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Okay, then Pate's pathos-laden tale is really irrelevant to the goal in mind here.
Wrong. Pate's tale is 100% relevant. Chick was pissed, bought a gun on a whim, and killed her son. Nuts or not, it doesn't take a genius or a serial killer to know that pulling the trigger and killing something from 10 feet away is far easier than ramming a knife through their chest multiple times or hitting them with your car.
Guns make it a fukload easier to kill things. If you disagree, go hunting with a kitchen knife and tell us how it goes. Something that makes it easier for people to kill others should be regulated and you shouldn't be able to buy it on a whim.
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WBraun
climber
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Where can I buy a gun?
Any of you guys selling out of your trunk?
I need one to protect me from all these psycho SuperTopo posters here.
And the drooling drones are coming ......
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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How long of a waiting period is necessary to cure a woman who's sick enough to kill her own kid?
Is ten days enough? Because if she passed the instant check, she's going to get the gun anyway.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Nobody know. Somewhere between zero to infinity days.
I'll come down from infinity days to 10 days (a compromise of infinity days) if you come up from zero (a compromise of only 10 days). Deal?
(hint: the compromise I am asking you to make (just 10 days) is far less than the compromise of infinity days I am willing to make)
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Shooting your own son to "get even" with the husband you're actually pissed at = mental instability!!!
Yes! Its vitriolic, hotheaded individuals who are killing us. Canada will have fewer murders regardless of gun ownership rates because it's prototypally a more mellow, tranquil society.
I'm not adverse to more severe firearm regulation...but not optimistic anything short of complete confiscation will abate murders by the rash pariahs in our midst.
Almost all murderers have life histories of violence, restraining orders, substance abuse problems and/or a form of psychopathology.
Though Norway has the highest firearm ownership per capita in Western Europe, it has the lowest murder rate. Other nations with comparitively high firearms ownership and comparably low murder rates include Denmark, Greece, Switzerland, and Austria....more placid nations.
Why does Luxembourg, despite its total handgun ban, have a murder rate that is nine times higher than countries such as Norway and Austria? France has 33% the firearm ownership of the U.S. but 2% as many murders. Why?
Nations with the highest murder rates are those with the most angry and mercurial disposition.
There are too many guns in the country and they're too easy for sociopaths and turbulent minded individuals to possess. But I'm afraid gun waiting periods are just a marginally effective treatment. Engendering a peaceful society requires ending the fear, loathing and the spirit of malevolent competition...
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ruppell
climber
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Where can I buy a gun?
Call me. Or google it:
LOLLOL
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Guns make it a fukload easier to kill things. If you disagree, go hunting with a kitchen knife and tell us how it goes. Something that makes it easier for people to kill others should be regulated and you shouldn't be able to buy it on a whim.
That's a principled point that makes Pate's pathos-ridden tale irrelevant. You can make that point entirely without Pate's story.
The QUESTION, however, is whether the point is CORRECT! And Pate's story contributes nothing but heat to that question.
What DOES contribute to that question is consideration of the many, MANY other things we buy on a whim, use entirely irresponsibly, and that produce vast death and mayhem (much more than ALL guns) in this country, particularly among our young people. Consistency is all I ask, and, unlike an anecdotal tale, that IS relevant. Just get your outrage-ducks all properly in a row.
you old farts offend me
I think I'm making a very similar point to what you just made. So, hopefully at least THIS "old fart" is not included in your list of offenders. LOL
Hedge, am I totally confused, or do you really not agree with Pate on the subject of waiting periods? Enlighten me, because your countless posts on another, related thread would sure have me convinced that you and Pate agree on this point (I'll provide quotes from the gun control thread, if you like).
So, given that you and Pate DO quite apparently agree on the need for waiting periods, my point still stands: you can't have the argument both ways.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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But I'm afraid gun waiting periods are just a marginally effective treatment.
You are afraid? Well then, best let that fear paralyze you. No point in doing anything at all if it might be only marginally effective.
What DOES contribute to that question is consideration of the many, MANY other things we buy on a whim, use entirely irresponsibly,
Completely fuking irrelevant. Go sodomize your strawmen somewhere else. The gun was acquired EASILY, within an hour, and used INTENTIONALLY to satisfy an irrational EMOTIONAL response to her situation.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mr Christ writes:
"I'll come down from infinity days to 10 days (a compromise of infinity days) if you come up from zero (a compromise of only 10 days). Deal?"
I dunno. It depends.
How bad's the problem?
Of all the thousands of gun murders, is the number of murders committed immediately after legally purchasing a gun via passing an instant background check closer to zero?
Or is that number closer to the top end ( "infinity", as you put it ) ?
One of the first rules of safe shooting is "Be sure of your target".
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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This isn't shooting dipsh#t. If you aren't willing to entertain a reasonable compromise, you don't belong in this society or making decisions that affect our society. Pathetic tea bagging obstructionists.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Completely fuking irrelevant. Go sodomize your strawmen somewhere else. The gun was acquired EASILY, within an hour, and used INTENTIONALLY to satisfy an irrational EMOTIONAL response to her situation.
No, you go sodomize your equally clueless non-thinkers.
IF needless, on-a-whim death is NOT the issue, then YOU have nothing to motivate your supposed outrage. And IF it IS the issue, then YOU have countless other things you should be worrying about MUCH more.
THE point.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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IF YOU think you actually have a valid point, YOU ARE an idiot.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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You are afraid? Well then, best let that fear paralyze you. No point in doing anything at all if it might be only marginally effective.
A prototypal jealous spouse gets over the irrational aspect of their indignation within hours. The mentally ill's exasperation and murderous hostility may go on for weeks...or even years.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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If you aren't willing to entertain a reasonable compromise, you don't belong in a society or making decisions that affect our society. Pathetic tea bagging obstructionists.
Keep talking! The longer you blow-hards keep it up, the more you alienate genuinely compromise-seeking, thinking, cool-thinking individuals.
You and Pate litter these threads with your name-calling, vile epithets, and non-arguments! Then you stand amazed and accusing as rational people don't instantly fall all over you with showers of joy.
People are not all stupid because they don't agree with your "compromise!" YOU haven't made the point, and you are NOT consistent in your outrage.
THE point.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Do you remember when you were kids and were getting a little too heated? You had to go sit in the corner and think about it for a bit. A bit in kidspeak is a long time.
Perhaps you should have to wait it out when buying a gun?
Unless you really really need to use it RIGHT THEN, it shouldn't even be an issue.
Again, where is the problem?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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What's the point of an enforced wait, Brandon?
Seems like a *solution* in search of a problem.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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A prototypal jealous spouse gets over the irrational aspect of their indignation within hours.
And it takes less time to buy a gun in most states. If only there were a point to mandatory waiting periods...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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I guess some people are more just comfortable with their government assuming they are a raging lunatic, rather than treating them as a grown adult.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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California used to have a mandatory cooling off period for getting married too.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Chaz, in the case of the OP, a waiting period very well may have helped. A cool down period, so to speak.
And yes, she may have freaked out with a different weapon, but a different weapon isn't as easily lethal as a firearm.
That's why guns should be treated differently.
I'm all for gun ownership, I have no beef with that. However, I'm all for tighter regulation. Nobody is going to take our guns away, but a little more regulation may deter heat of the moment crimes.
Why wouldn't you want to try it out and see if it works? And don't give me that slippery slope argument. There is no slippery slope. If it doesn't work, the gun lobby is strong enough to repeal any changes. You know that.
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