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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jul 11, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
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John M, that is an interesting article.
It just furthers my opinion that the elite rich are getting richer (read about Anglo Irish's David Drumm - in refuge in the US - and Sean FitzPatrick, and Denis O'Brien, and an Irish musician multi-millionaire, just as examples)...
and most of us are getting poorer.
I will never lose faith in humankind, but there are some chancers out there living off of us/society, no matter what country.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
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Govt's everywhere screwed up. Less so here.
Thanks, Spider, for demonstrating that not all here are lost. Reading the reactions to Bluey's post does demonstrate some reason for concern, though:
1. Intolerance of those with opposing views. We seem awfully hasty to condemn those with whom we disagree as hateful, stupid, uninformed or uneducated. We have a very difficult time accepting the possibility that intelligent people can disagree;
2. An unjustified faith in education. If education cured all ills, how come Berkeley is so screwed up? (Disclaimer: I am a graduate of U.C. Berkeley [or, as we like to call it, the University of California]), and I love visiting. I just wouldn't want to live there.
3. A lack of perspective. I wouldn't want to go anywhere that is perfect, because I would mess it up by being there.
Incidentally, I enjoyed reading the quotes from the Sermon on the Mount, but I think W.C. Fields gave the only rational reason for a non-believer to read the Bible: to look for loopholes.
Carry on.
John
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Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
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Jul 11, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
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JESUS! ^^^^^
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jul 11, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
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Intolerance of those with opposing views
how come Berkeley is so screwed up?
John, am I missing something here?
My late sister was a Bezerkely grad and I climbed a lot at Indian Rock.
It appears that you may, possibly, be the intolerant one with your comments about Berkeley, and to hell that you are a UCB grad.
Concentrate on Turkish genocide of Armenians, and not that Berkeley is screwed up.
Jeez, you went off topic with the Berkeley bit and I went off topic even further. Shame on us, or at least me, as I can't judge you as I do not even know you.
Berkeley is no better or worse than most places in the US. Probably better in my liberal eyes.
As in the film Runaway Jury the character says: "The People's Republic of Berkeley California."
Well, rather that than KKK country. But I am being judgmental.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jul 11, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
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Dean,
It's your seemingly distasteful opinion of me and my fellow moral, non believing people that raises my ire.
Why not live and let live, rather than judge?
I live a good, honest life, and I don't associate myself with organized religion. Am I going to hell for that?
If so, why?
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Jul 11, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
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Since when did "faith in America" surpass faith in the Lord? We (X'ians, me anyway) were never meant to have faith in anything but the Lord. Like it says, "We are not of this world." including America. All country's eventually belly-up, particularly when they stray way off course. America is a case in point, the writing is on the wall, has been for a long time.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 11, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
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I've been there bluering, I lost faith during the Bush years.....but then the big surprise, we elected a black President.....I'm back on board. Will wonders never cease. Bet that helps you go to sleep at night bluey.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jul 11, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
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Brandon,keep your nose to the grindstone friend,theres always a reason for such rightousness.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Jul 11, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
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We are not of this world. Spiritually speaking!!
Dr.F. - Really? Prove it. Technically impossible to do to a spiritually dead person (you), wasn't who He was speaking too. Wasn't our calling. So, maybe try again at a more appropriate time.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
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Patrick,
My bad. I should have made it clear that my comments about Berkeley were somewhat tongue-in-cheek, particularly as to the University. The city's politics, however, have created great difficulties for students there, by making housing close to campus rather more difficult to obtain than when I lived there.
I do, however, seriously believe that we place way too much faith in the power of education to make people righteous, or even informed. I see much less respect for free inquiry, academic freedom or free expression in the academy now than when I was an undergrad at Cal 40 years ago, or a graduate or law student at UCLA. Frankly, I'm rather proud of Berkeley (the UC, not the town) in that regard. Its faculty seems intent on preserving at least a semblance of intellectual diversity, often in the face of great hostility from zealots of purity at either end of the relevant ideological spectrum.
John
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jul 11, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
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See, the Taco Stand is, or should be, a microcosm, or should that be macrocosm (?) of life.
Many of us disagree or agree, or agree to disagree. Better than most staid climbing forums.
We bounce ideas off each other, without the 'fear' of knowing such ideas are not climbing related. But we still contribute because above all, we are humans more than just climbers.
Climbing is our love, our host, debate our daily bread, so to speak. (Ooops, there goes the Catholic in me, and I am an atheist now.)
But the fact this forum is rich. Being a full-time carer for Jennie, I have a lot of time on my hands, which I try use use to my fullest (and try to bring in extra dosh/cash). I visit (but hardly contribute) to a number of forums (NY Times, Irish Times, Wash Post, Fox, CNN, LA Times, SF Chronicle, Huffington, France 24, a couple right-wing sites to keep my finger on the pulse, etc) but the Taco Stand is the best.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Jul 11, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
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Only in America can this happen:
Admitted 9/11 mastermind devotes prison time to building better vacuum.
Understand Wallie Mart has contacted him and thinking of selling them by the end of the year.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Jul 11, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
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Only in America can this happen:
So rather than gain something useful for mankind, you'd just throw it away. This is what's wrong with the average conservative 'Murkin mindset.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jul 11, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
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John, point taken, and I understand your pov. But still, Berkeley is a great town. The politics nowadays, I know little of.
My late brother Mac was arrested at the People's Park demonstrations. I remember a guy who said his name was 'Noboby', "so vote for me, Nobody" for president, Nobody for president, at Peoples Park. Great glorious days for us, and I was just a young liberal teenager.
And BITD I mainly went to Berkeley to (EDIT boulder at Indian Rock) eyeball the North Face fare in the shop on Telegraph Avenue, or the Sierra Designs outlet and eat at Spengers (great seafood).
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Jul 11, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
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When I was at SJSU ('92-'94), Berkeley let people go nude on the streets, if they so chose. One d00d (19) who use to ride his skateboard nude from home to UCB everyday and sit in class nakit. Past kids on the public streets. Some gals started to complain about his sweaty butt on the seat and him not wiping it down afterwards (was an article in the local San Jose paper). Some chicks in cloass had a hard-on for the d00d and were always updating everyone. There was a group that he was associated with that would do nude theater all around the town of Berkely and on the UCB campus (and any other campus that was game). They were wanted to be allowed to actually have sexual intercourse in their productions. Perhaps in the near future, the way thinga are going, eh?
edit: i'm sure it has many good points. dunno, but i would probably live and work there. but, i doubt that i would wanna raise kids there.
one of my profs (PHD) became director of the newly formed ('94) Occupational Therapy Dept (only 3 school in Ca, at the time) at Berkeley, and offered several of us acceptance into the PHD program there. i had been broke so long that i just decided to go to work, plus i was way in debt. and i thought i was to old at 44. probably should have taken him up on it though. i think it would have been a very interesting city. i would have gone into clinical psych, or that was my focus/interest at the time. lol actually i enjoyed tripping aound Berkeley, lots of interesting and fairly genuine people, imho!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 11, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
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My GF works for a large solar distributor. She's telling me how we import the major portion of our solar panels from China, and that they have a 34% tariff placed on them. Then they found that some were being sold for below cost, those get something like a 104% tariff.
Now companies are going crazy trying to get panels. What'd she say, Taiwan (?) is now beefing up production because they see that distributors need to move away from the Chinese panels.
Certainly, solar ain't going away--it's been on a steady increase.
Question: Why does not the USA manufacture panels on the scale of China? I mean, if we've got a 34% tariff on the ones coming in, we should at least be able to match their costs, no?
Bluey's screaming about folks on foodstamps, all the while there are millions looking for work.
Suggestion: Go the the bank, take out all your money, and buy a clue.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jul 11, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
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Dean, my apologies. I let my temper get the best of me and responded inappropriately.
You're a good man, and I respect you despite our differences.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 11, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
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We've been trolled.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Jul 11, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
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^ no problemo, AFAIC! it's way to late for America. so, "do as you will" as the great Satanist Alister Crowley preached, right up your (and America's) alley. seriously, i could care less what happens, cuz, its gonna happen anyway, so why fret? started in '63, and it is what it is today. Christians simply need to get their own life in order, before the sh#t hits the fan, here in the good ol' USofA!
btw, SoC&S was meant to keep the government from declaring one church over another, nothing else. The Bible was the primary book used in all public schools right up until the early 1900's.
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