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Mark Donovan 27 Eldorado Springs Dr.
Social climber
Eldorado Springs CO
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I'm an Eldo resident and homeowner 2 doors down from the proposed AAC Lodge. I've worked with my wife and others to inform the Eldorado Springs community about the proposed purchase as we felt it to be largely under the radar. We also held a gathering at our house and invited Phil Powers to discuss and hear out the Eldorado Springs community on this. We've been fair and we've tried to understand the positives.
We are you. We have jobs, children, stress, dreams. While in Eldorado Springs, we all, home owners and renters have spent considerable effort in resurrecting cabins and other forgotten structures, building our lives where we can enjoy this beautiful area of the world, resident or visitor. There's book clubs, spontaneous dinners and parties, music and celebration. There are many families and children. We respect Eldorado Springs, as we've spent the energy maintaining it's character, working together on zoning issues, rethinking the dirt road to make it more conducive to pedestrians and cars, cleaned up litter biannually that visitors seem to casually leave. We respect our wildlife, neighbors and visitors. I have a couple questions I'd like to pose in hopes it will generate some constructive comments. I'd like to read reasons why it would be a "good thing" to build a Lodge in Eldorado Springs.
1. Who out there is going to tell me that putting a Lodge smack down in the middle of a neighborhood will benefit the surrounding homeowners?
Who out there would want a lodge next to their house, feet from their house, regardless of affiliation? Please give reasons why.
2. Because the proposed is estimated at bringing in 700+ individuals annually, can the AAC guarantee my children's safety?
With 700+ transient individuals potentially being "my neighbor", shouldn't I be concerned? Again, regardless of affiliation.
3. There isn't enough parking to house 22 individuals, just juggling the shifting of cars between stays will spill into our parking areas and the major highway which it abuts.
4. Shouldn't I feel somewhat concerned about the overall management of the AAC? Seems like more entitlement and poor judgement being funded by the climbing enthusiast's dollars.
I will post the Penn Burris letter for review as well as our current information soon.
I can continue but I'd like to rather discuss this with you, the climbers, who is so far within the confines of this forum haven't contributed thought or reason that justifies the AAC having a Lodge in Eldorado Springs CO. I will be available this whole weekend to come by and discuss the benefits.
I see the AAC as many very financially powerful individuals who run a club that allow you, the climbing enthusiast to contribute your money so that the AAC can muscle their will to any area they wish without consideration of the individuals who made it. I have not felt one contributing thought from AAC management that justifies building a Lodge in a neighborhood. As spoken from Phil Powers, "The Lodge will only benefit the AAC members", I'm not here for Eldorado Springs, I'm here for the members. The only entitlement I see, is that on the part of the AAC, not the residents of Eldorado Springs.
AAC Board members, please find another area conducive and consistent with other AAC Lodges to build for the Boulder area.
Mark Donovan
27 Eldorado Springs Dr
80025
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Wow what a whanker-fest. Clearly most of you know nothing of the history of Eldorado Springs.
It has in it's past been a major resort destination. Presidents and Royal families went there. It was so popular that there was train service from Denver. There was even a couple of luxury hotels there. The town has also been destroyed repeatedly by fire and flood. The little bedroom community is there because of the remarkable canyon at the end of the road not the other way around. Old man Fowler would have sold the whole place to a gravel concession had it not been for the State making it a State Park. I wonder how the "locals" would relish an endless procession of gravel trucks blazing past the slow children playing in their sleepy little hamlet??? Chances are good that the nouveau riche residents now upgrading their million dollar shanties would not be complaining about a climber's hostel. No they wouldn't be living there at all. Their property wouldn't be worth the crumbled foundations and rotted wood their dream shacks are made of.
It is the Canyon and it's State Park status that gives little Eldorado Springs it's reason d'etre. Without the recreational opportunities available at the end of the road, of which "climbing" is preeminent, Eldorado Springs would be an insignificant run down rat hole, a ghost town. As it is now that the new sewage system is in locals are enjoying a surge in real estate values. No body wants to see the riff raff ramblin when they are sittin in the cat bird seat. It is funny to realize that a couple of the loudest protesters are the same folks who broke all the rules when it served their ends. Now that they have theirs they want to keep it like it's always been. Yeah Right!
I say bulldoze the crap out of it and the horse stable next to it and build a climber's hostel/cafe/community center. Build it "Clean" and "Green" as a showcase of sustainability. You could even build it atop it's own covered parking. If I as a private citizen had the resources to do it I could walk right in and do it. I wouldn't need permission. It is "private property" after all and as long as I followed the rules I wouldn't even have to ask the "locals" how they liked it. Be glad you have an organization like the A.A.C. at the fore in this overdue idea. They will at least listen to locals concerns. Unlike some of the more recently arrived affluencia who impact the roads and families building their architectural abominations with out regard to neighbors sensibilities.
Here is a great video on a little Eldo history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRMtSDE7A
Those of you who want to keep it like it was should start building two more swimming pools a dance hall and ice skating rink. Chop chop we are waiting.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Here is a great video on a little Eldo history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRMtSDE7A
https://www.eldoradosprings.com/coney-island-of-the-west
Eldorado Resort History
Described by many as the "Coney Island of the West," Eldorado Springs Resort was first opened for business on July 4, 1905. Originally named Moffat Lakes Resort it was owned by, among others, Frank Fowler, step father of noted author Gene Fowler ("Good Night Sweet Prince" and "Timber Line"). Even though the resort went through many organizational changes during the following 78 years, it was always owned in part by the Fowler family until 1983.
The early visitors to the resort came by train or horseback, with the Colorado and Southern Railroad operating eight trips per day during the summer season. So popular was the resort that two additional swimming pools were added, one in 1905 and the present pool in 1906. At that time it was advertised as the largest swimming pool in the country.
In 1908 the grand "Eldorado Hotel" opened for guests, with the finest room in the house renting for $2.50 per night. Those not able to stay in the hotel had choices of accommodations ranging from tents to dormitories or private cottages.
The most famous cottage guests were Dwight and Mamie Eisenhower, who honeymooned in the cabin just east of the hotel. The resort's popularity flourished during the 1910's and 1920's, and the hotel guest list read like a "Who's Who in America." Guests included heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey, actor Douglas Fairbanks, actress Mary Pickford and it is told that W.C. Fields even drank some spring water.
One of the reasons people came was to watch renowned dare-devil Ivy Baldwin walk across the canyon on a tight-rope suspended 582 feet above the ground. Ivy Baldwin may best be remembered as one of America's first hot air balloonists, but in Eldorado Springs he is remembered for his 86 trips across the high wire. His first trip was on July 4, 1906 and his last was in 1948 at the age of 82.
Many of the other guests entertained themselves at one of the dancing pavilions, playing carnival games on the Midway, roller-skating, fishing or just plain relaxing. Attendance exceeded 60,000 visitors during the summers--it was truly the place to be.
In 1927, a group of businessmen headed by Fred Bonfils (owner of the Denver Post) bought controlling interest in the resort. This group of speculators had contrived an elaborate scheme to "hold-up" the Denver Water Board for hundreds of thousands of dollars. They had intended on putting a dam in the canyon, selling lake-side lots and coercing the Water Board into buying the dam. Fortunately, they were besieged with disaster: two devastating fires and the 100 year flood wiped out their resolve and the proposed dam. In 1938, Frank Fowler's son Jack gained outright ownership by buying out the Bonfils group.
During the 1940's good times returned to the resort under the guidance of Jack Fowler. Jack's dream was to distribute the water for consumption on a national basis. He began bottling the water in 1942 in two, four, six and ten quart size packages. Prior to that, the water had only been available at the self-service location. Although Jack Fowler was ahead of the U.S. marketplace, he began the tradition which continues today. In 1958, he began selling the water in two-and-a-half gallon bag-in-a-box containers. Marketing efforts were crude and localized but by the early 1960's operations required three employees and volume was 20,000 units.
When Jack Fowler retired his son Bill took over management of the resort. He operated the resort through the 1970's, which were not the best of times for Eldorado Springs. His plans centered around real-estate development. However, Boulder County was not interested in development and restricted his ability to build and sell homes and lots. Finally in 1978, the State of Colorado purchased over 400 acres from the resort, thereby establishing Eldorado Canyon State Park. By 1983 Bill Fowler was ready to retire and for the first time since 1905 the resort became owned by someone other than the Fowler family, after the three founding partners of Eldorado Artesian Springs, Inc. acquired the resort and its water rights.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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seriously, eldo residents who are pissed off about a climbers' ranch should just buy the property from AAC or whomever. Call it Inclusive Park or Diversity Park and commission an artist to paint a mural depicting images of community and diversity.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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I've climbed regularly in Eldo for over 30 years and consider myself an "almost local". I would be in favor of a well done climber hostel.
Seems really crazy to buy a home in that town and then complain about the pool and the climber traffic going through on the dirt road. What, you didn't know about those things when you bought your property? And on any given Sunday throughout the summer, the park is full of picnickers and hikers and all sorts of other riff raff. A few climbers at a hostel would be an insignificant addition to the already busy road.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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+1 philo, bulldoze that rat hole.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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As usual Phil, you've done your homework and brought some perspective to an argument that is wallowing in reactionary short term thinking.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Many of the other guests entertained themselves at one of the dancing pavilions, playing carnival games on the Midway, roller-skating, fishing or just plain relaxing. Attendance exceeded 60,000 visitors during the summers--it was truly the place to be.
Attendance exceeded 60,000 visitors during the summers--
Is that more or less than 20? New math always vexes me.
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Deekaid
climber
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Some good points on both sides. I have "no dog in the fight" except maybe climbing there someday so just an observation. It does seem like stuffing 10 lbs. of sh#t in a 5 lbs. sack, especially if there are other options a reasonable distance away.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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why do you "climbers" like to automatically react like you are oppressed and denied rights to mount hards rocks. no one is denying any climbing access you can all day everyday. The park and Eldorado Springs are not the same. Please respect the locals and the people that live on the road. Having you lovely climbers sleeping here will maximize the sewer capacity and the financial burden will be placed on the reisdents. Also many people have lived here prior to the State Park.
If you cannot be nice then stay away. You trolls are just making "climbers" look like insensitive entitled jerks. Why do you want a hostel in a town surrounded by elitist locals? Go somewhere else NO AAC FOR ME
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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Philo face that was a long time ago. the area outside the park is a residential neighborhood with SEASONAL FACILITIES please why be somewhere you are not wanted after dark. there is not enough room we paid for our homes and private property leave us alone go away AT THE end of the day SCRAM
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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I would like to know how the AAC is addressing the parking issue. Of everything I've read that is one of the valid concerns.
Phil brings up excellent points. To complain about the traffic in the summer is ridiculous. If you are a resident there you bought into that traffic. It came with your land. It's because of the park ES exists.
I appreciate the reasonable discourse from those affected. however, I'd have to say you all might need to regroup a bit.
First, if the accusations in the letter from Penn Burris are true then it clearly shows you are on thin ice already and MSU only continues to undermine your stance. And yes... I agree with Todd E - if true that's a very reasonable response.
Second, you might want to find a way to get the pitbulls of your side to STFU because thinly veiled threats are exactly what this discussion does not need. (S)He's doing you no favors and once again only undermines your stance.
worth repeating:
remember climbing parasites your cars will be towed if even an inch on local property. Your gear will get trashed or ruined if left outside. You will be greeted with nothing but hostility from locals and the cops will be called everytime one of your entitled members does anything that could be in violation of any law.
pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
All that said at the moment I cannot say if I'm for or against the hostel.
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steve shea
climber
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NIMBY = low life form. I feel the pain of the homeowners. But you knew before you bought. The popularity of climbing, the canyon, and the water is an attraction. Possibly helpful in maintaining higher property values. Here in Jackson residents near the airport tried to shut down runways, institute noise restraints and operational hours because the quality of life was plummeting. And then there was the property value issue. The air strip has been there since the 40's. Jackson became popular with tourists, some stayed. The town grew and property values rose. The sense of entitlement lies not with the AAC but the residents. Just because you are there now, all that has happened before and all change must be ignored? Welcome to a tourist area! You knew before you bought. I suppose Jackson has gone to hell in a hand basket but it is still a nice place to live, just different. Given how the AAC operates Climber's Ranch here, I do not think you have much to worry about.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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I have been going to Eldo since my family moved to Morrison Co in 1966. I started climbing there in the early to mid seventies when Ivy's wire was still in it's place hung in space. I have seen a lot come and go through Eldo over the decades. The State Park status has brought many changes and enhancements to the canyon experience. This has helped considerably reduce human impact on a sensitive resource and though many "locals" at first complained that it altered the essence of Eldo it has for the most part been for the greater good. A well maintained and managed "Climber's Lodge" could be similarly beneficial. Particularly if it could also serve as a meeting place where travelers from all over the country and the world could meet locals directly. What a better way for them to learn that "locals" don't like their parking infringed, their dogs run over or their children pedophiled.
Who knew?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Y'all should just learn to pick yer battles. This one is lost from the get-go.
No way a bunch of dirtbags, no matter how well they clean up, is gonna
prevail against tax-payin' suburbanites who can muster a lot more voter
firepower. It is just absurd to even consider putting that thing in a
residential area. As somebody with considerable experience in the zoning
wars all I have to say is BANZAI!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Looks like Hank and Larry's old place is for sale, too.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/39-41-Chesebro-Way-Boulder-CO-80025/2112260885_zpid/
Holy cow, what an over-valued shithole!
Let's get real here.
Seem there are more than a couple other 1M options within 2-3 mins, all with WAY more land, a few with commercial neighbors.
After the average climber makes a couple visits to downtown destinations, the Flatirons, a few trips up Bocan, maybe a run to RMNP - their final odometer reading will be exactly the same.
I'd rather be closer to Pearl than Eldo at night, myself.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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With what JLP says in mind, I'd be curious as to the other options the AAC has explored.
I'm glad I live in Boulder. The absolute worse part about living here is the lack of reasonable camping for reasonable access to climbing. A climbers ranch really is needed... somewhere.
I'm curious why the AAC is looking at ES and if it looked elsewhere?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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But JLP we can't have 20 more parasite climber pedophiles on Pearl Street at night can we?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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22 more Nag Champa burning dirtbags. Certainly that violates some sort of Boulder City ordinance.
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