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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 21, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
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How you gonna do that Fats? I was there in Camp4 about 5 years ago when you were selling off your pin rack and hooks...unless I have you confused with someone else.
Selling your rack to take the wife and kids to fancy dinner = No walls ever again, because you are fully domesticated brah.
That was someone else. My pin rack is still stashed in my haul bag, in my garage. Sadly, it's been a dozen years or so since I last did the Captain.
And yes, I am totally domesticated, but every once in a while I let my wife know I will be doing a wall once the opportunity presents itself, just so she doesn't forget, since I haven't. I may be presenting a business plan to her shortly with a proposal for 2014. This summer I'll have to content myself with the Needles.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 21, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
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I would say if there were 30,000 summits of El Cap there has to be at least double that amount of attempts maybe much more so the chances are surely less than 1 in a 1000. If you talk about climber days in Yosemite the odds have to start getting very small.
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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May 21, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
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Don Paul has a very good point about the risk towards the anchors. Plus they really should be checked after this too, they might need replacing. I wonder if that automatically happens, if it's already been done.
Beyond that, even with a dynamic rope that was a very long fall. He had a big chance of not surviving even if he had been hauling with a dynamic. People should keep that in mind... Sometimes you really couldn't beat such bad luck despite all the best intentions.
I also think second guessing about it can drive a person nuts. I would like to read the American Alpine Accident Report when it's out and then let it rest. One should not over think about it into madness since that really can be worse than the accident itself.
Yes, I did over think with the car accident, and other stuff with Johnny and... It wasn't smart of me. I've learned since then... I hope some of you can take the easy route and learn from me instead of using that beat up old path.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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May 21, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
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I understand why nobody believes clipping the haul line into your chest harness is a good idea. But falling that far on a static line, well, it would have made no difference. Tragic.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
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May 28, 2013 - 11:28am PT
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I was just talking about this last night with an "older than me" wall veteran. I just ordered a new static haul line and I have to admit, that accident did get me thinking. No real opinion from me on this post, just bumping for more discussion.
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nopantsben
climber
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May 28, 2013 - 11:33am PT
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realistically, I think that makes no difference, because an event like this (clean 220 ft fall) into an anchor that holds is extremely unlikely, and surviving an 80m fall is very unlikely too i would guess(?) even when the fall is clean. there is tons of other things that could happen as well..
if one is really concerned about loose rock, why not use two lead lines?
as i said i always attach the haul line to a gear loop that rips in case of more force on it, so that if the haulbags go, i don't follow ...
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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May 28, 2013 - 11:33am PT
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I haven't led a pitch with the haul line clipped on me in years. A thin tag line offers so many advantages.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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May 28, 2013 - 11:35am PT
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+1 more for Lambone. I like a little larger tag line though. 5 mil is a bit snarly.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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May 28, 2013 - 11:38am PT
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I think I now understand why Alex does what he does.. :)
and isn't the haul line loop on the back of your harness full strength?
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briham89
Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
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May 28, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
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While unlikely, what about the core shotting your lead rope argument for a dynamic haul line as a back up. I heard just throw some duct tape on it, but really?! F*#k that. I guess in the unlikely event of it happening you could still bail. Again I'm not picking a side, just curious.
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franzr
Trad climber
Lancaster, CA
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May 28, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
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I have a story which is related to the current discussion--albeit with a much better outcome.
On the Nose in 1996, first time up El Cap. I had just led the traversing pitch below Camp 4, and was hauling the bag. All of a sudden I hear my partner scream, and the haul line becomes nearly slack. What the? I conveniently had a lot of slack from my knot to the belay, so I traversed back 20' or so and was able to communicate with my partner. He had been following the traverse, free-climbing and pushing his jugs along, when the pig fell and loaded the 100' dynamic lower-out line attached to his harness--obviously pulling him violently down and to the side.
The haul line was just fine--I hauled the pig to unweight my partner, and we proceeded to finish the route. My partner was quite traumatized, however.
So what had happened? When I got the bag up I noticed the rope bucket we kept attached to the pig was gone; the non-full-strength clip loop from the rope bucket was dangling there. Piecing together the evidence, here's what we finally deduced:
When I pulled up the haul line, the rope ended up tangled around the rope bucket with quite a bit of slack. My partner didn't notice this; it was likely kind of obscured by the mostly empty rope bucket. He then lowered out the bag and began following; partway through hauling, however, the rope bucket tangle gave way (or the rope bucket clip-in just broke), causing the pig to free-fall until hitting the end of the lower-out line on my partner's harness.
So--clearly the lesson is to make sure the haul line is cleanly pulling on the pigs before cutting them loose. But I've always felt like a dynamic lower-out line and haul line can stack the odds in one's favor--weird things happen.
We had no way of knowing how long the pig fell...but likely at least 50', maybe more. My partner was jugging the dynamic lead line, so a static lower-out line may not have been catastrophic in this situation--but it was super violent as it was with a dynamic lower-out line.
I've since hauled with static and dynamic lines, and have gotten core shots in both. I also don't think static lines are that much more efficient. So dynamic it is for me! As for where to clip it in, break-off loop or bomber loop, that's a crap shoot--no way to predict which failure mode you'll be dealing with. Except perhaps soloing using the fifi method, where it should definitely be on a break-off loop.
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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May 28, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
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dang, scary...
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