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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Feb 13, 2013 - 12:26am PT
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One more time, in case all you catholics missed it. Priests rape boys. It happens a lot. You know it, the church leadership knows it and the pope knows it. They (church leadership and, specifically, this pope) help the priests who rape boys to evade prosecution and let them continue to work with children. Catholics who continue to support the church are supporting the rape of children. It really is simple; if you give the church money you are paying priest to f*#k boys. End of story.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 13, 2013 - 02:53am PT
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Someday there will be a thread for ST's graveyard gang to shovel dirt on the public schools, where children are ten times more likely to be victims of sexual abuse than in Catholic schools or churches.
(Or perhaps even a thread voicing indignation at males in the general population who abuse at a far higher rate than Catholic priests.)
But until then...let me cheerlead the indictments and burial...a wee bit of finger pointing makes me feel more elevated and pure than I really am....
http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2013 - 02:57am PT
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Good grief Jennie.. you are defending the Catholic church by saying schools are worse.
Gee.. that person only raped 100 people. He is so much better then the person who raped 1000. What kind of defense is that?
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:14am PT
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But until then...let me cheerlead the indictments and burial...a wee bit of finger pointing makes me feel more elevated and pure than I really am....
This is too funny considering that you are pointing a finger at us.
Also.. the schools didn't have a program that started at the top to hide abusers and transfer them to other schools.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:15am PT
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It's hardly a defense, John. But, in perspective of immense national and world paradox of child abuse, I do question the major focus of the acrimony, HERE, being on the Catholic hierarchy.
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:22am PT
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Yes it is a defense Jennie.
You are attempting to make us feel bad about our criticism of the Catholic church by saying that there is a bigger problem in the schools. That is an attempt to take the heat off of the church.
The Catholic church deserves plenty of heat.
But oh wait. I forgot. Those priests are forgiven. We can just forget about them. Such a fine job the church did policing itself. Would you feel the same way if it was some other institution. What if the military had been doing this? I seriously doubt that you would be saying the things that you are now. But any heat comes the churches way and you are quick to defend them. Its sad to me. There is no defense for the churches handling of this.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:24am PT
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Also.. the schools didn't have a program that started at the top to hide abusers and transfer them to other schools.
Apparently new York had an effective program to protect abusers
From the above link
"In an early [1994] study of 225 cases of educator sexual abuse in New York, all of the accused had admitted to sexual abuse of a student but none of the abusers was reported to authorities."
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:27am PT
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wow.. out of how many school districts you found one. My God Jennie.. There is no defense of what the Catholic church did. One district does not make a system wide problem. You fail to see the difference.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:36am PT
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Are you assuming I'm putting forward free sanction to guilty priests?
I believe the guilty should be punished...not the 99% who suffer guilt by association...a concept seemingly skipped over in these mud-slinging fests.
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:38am PT
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No Jennie.. I don't assume that. But whenever anyone has anything critical to say of a purported Christian religion you are quick to try and take the heat off. Even when the heat is well deserved, as in this case.
a concept seemingly skipped over in these mud-slinging fests.
fine.. but please don't swipe me with your broad strokes.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:41am PT
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I believe some of the comments on this thread qualify as more than "heat", John...
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:42am PT
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Certainly there were comments that were too harsh. Do two wrongs make it right?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Feb 13, 2013 - 08:39am PT
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It seems this has boiled down again to defenders of religion vs. everyone else, yet again....
Look, most of us are just frustrated with the Catholic church - and it isn't just idealogical. His church stopped millions of condoms from getting into Africa, his church hides pedophiles... I don't know the Pope. I never met the man, I can only make assumptions of his character based on his actions.
It could be for health, I'll give him the benefit (benedict?) of the doubt for that. I get that Catholicism is a big part of the cultural identity for millions of people. I think its important that catholics be able to have all of their traditions and structure and I think those are important things.
But f*#k off with that hiding pedophile sh#t. That got a lot of people riled up, and we still are waiting for answers.
So no, catholics aren't bad, in fact they are awesome. Sometimes the most open minded of all the 'fundamentalist' religions (I mean not new-age-y bullshit haha). I mean, they have cosmologists for christs sake.
Get a bit better persecuting yer own as#@&%es, guys. I'm not saying the Pope was one of 'em, and you are MORE progressive than most big backward religions (Islam...) in a lot of ways. Just... STOP IT.
lol.
(I would follow Pandora Boxx on Twitter, one of my favorite drag queens. Way more entertaining. So that question is answered....)
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2013 - 08:53am PT
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GDavis,
Thanks for the suggestion,
But are you sure that Pandorra Boxx can be as campy as the Pope?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Feb 13, 2013 - 10:38am PT
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Seems like a case study in what happens when you prevent men from getting married, I think priests cant have any sex and even masturbation is immoral. So they develop weird perversions. It's definitely hypocritical that they're on a crusade to stop people from using condoms, but no crusade agaist the child molester - priests.
The Vatican was definitely with Musillini and if you read Thomas Aquinas, he's got essays justifying killing all the women and children in wars, and is the proponent of the military's "just war" theory - ie, the ends justify any means. It's seriously screwed up, and at odds with modern concepts of human rights.
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steve shea
climber
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:12am PT
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Jennie you are just misinformed. The Catholic church is an oligarchy. The power vested in the leadership is absolute. The paper trail from local dioceses to the College of Cardinals is a matter of record. Raetzinger's final work as a Cardinal was to deal with the sex abuse offenders. He did nothing but internalise and perpetuate the coverup. He took this knowledge to catholicism's highest position and did nothing. Furthermore to equate this to a school US school issue is nonsense. Child sex abuse of children condoned by omission in the catholic church is of pandemic proportion. 100's of thousands of cases. Originally the Vatican dismissed it as an American problem with our permissive culture. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ireland, central Europe, Africa, SE Asia,S America and lately a huge amount of abuse being uncovered in Canada. As I stated earlier the catholic church was complicit in war crimes also due to omission. During WWII they were granted nation state status in Italy by Mussolini. Why? The vatican agreed not to "interfere" with the work of facism. This culture of self preservation has been a cornerstone of the hierarchy to this day. I was raised catholic, my kids have been to first communion. I have a duty to speak. I think they have been guilty of crimes against humanity. Do you know babies are conceived in the Vatican with alarming regularity. The internal Vatican joke is "the only babies born in the Vatican are born by accident". The abuse of young girls is also a huge problem. They take the young and innocent to a hell they will never recover from yet preach morality.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Feb 13, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
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I have no dog in this race (other then the fact that I studied for four years in a Jesuits seminary) but here is an interesting and (for me) informative article in Tikun Magazine (a progressive Jewish periodical) written by two catholic theologians (or ex Catholics anyway)There new age-y solution is a bit much for me, but the critiques of Ratzinger/Benedict, as spelled out by Fox is quite interesting....
http://tinyurl.com/aabfbp9
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 13, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
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Jennie I have a question for you. Shouldn't you be more outraged than most, considering how the church leadership has betrayed and corrupted your faith?
I'm not Roman Catholic, Mr Kay. But I'm vexed by the panorama, here, villifying a huge and far-flung priesthood of (predominately) moral individuals and blackening a faith of many millions as sequel to the covert actions of a limited collection of deviants and the improvident actions of some leaders.
Yes, the guilty should be punished...but impugning the unabridged abstract of Roman Catholicism as pedophillic...suggesting there's just "something" about that belief system that trends toward child abuse is simply mistaken.
...and certainly an unjust arraignment in grim context of greater child abuse numbers in public schools and the full secular world.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Feb 13, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
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I'm not Roman Catholic, Mr Kay. But I'm vexed by the panorama, here, villifying a huge and far-flung priesthood of (predominately) moral individuals and blackening a faith of many millions as sequel to the covert actions of a limited collection of deviants and the improvident actions of some leaders.
Hi Jennie. The problem with this is that because the "huge and far-flung priesthood" has chosen to ignore the problems, it is hard to see it as a group of "predominately moral individuals." There may be a priest somewhere who was completely unaware that his leaders were consciously choosing to abet child rapists (to say nothing of many other ugly things), but virtually every single one of them was aware. And have been aware for as long as it has been going on.
This is not just a Catholic issue, or even just a religious issue. As you say, it happens elsewhere. And it should be exposed and dealt with wherever it occurs. But just because it happens elsewhere is no reason to ignore it in the Catholic (or any other) church.
The priests, by choosing to say nothing, are as guilty as the bishops and cardinals and popes of abetting the child rapists. Every single one of them, if their religious beliefs are not feigned, should be calling for a massive shakeup.
But they have done nothing.
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