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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
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This is obviously the fault of the NRA, this country's first civil rights organization.
It could not possibly be the result of a culture that so loves violence that if you show a tit in a movie it will be rated X, but if you hack it off then it is only rated R.
It couldn't be a result of a culture that substitutes video games and tv for sound parenting and loving attention.
Must have been the presence of the tool, a complex device that nobody could manufacture for themselves in their garage,..
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:22pm PT
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Must have been the presence of the tool, a complex device that nobody could manufacture for themselves in their garage,..
Well a nice big bomb can be made in your garage, but there aren't many of those going off in malls or schools yet.
Maybe it's easier to get the guns than to build a bomb in your garage?
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
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Latest report is one of his parents was found dead
yeah, I heard that is was the shooters' mother. also heard that the shooter was twenty years old.
as an aside, I think camo outfits should be outlawed.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
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Ron, STFU.
Isolated incidents of violence are far different than what we are discussing right now.
Why do you always have to be an ass?
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
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You'd think that after events like this the gun nuts would even agree it may be time to try something drastic. Can you really love your "tools" that much?
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
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Sheltering a child from violence... I am calling B.S. on that since my parents "GREW UP IN A WAR ZONE." They saw kids shot, people starved, horrible acts such as folks steeling for survival from their elders and... Seeing the victims of that theft die as a result. They were not homicidal maniacs because they saw such horrible stuff. They were the nicest, most moral, generous people I ever knew. Explain That!!!!
Now how can you shelter or not shelter a child? I sure as heck am not going to keep tragic news away from Aris. I think that is stupid since he will see it, he will be exposed to it "somewhere/somehow." What I am going to do is talk to him about it. Ask him what he thinks, have a discussion. Might as well teach him some coping skills and a few moral lessons while at it.
Just because life is harsh does not excuse bad behavior.
The whole gun debate isn't good either. We are avoiding the real issue. We as a nation are suffering because we lack a proper social structure. We don't have town squares, a place where people can connect to those living around them. This whole individual bubble isolation isn't working. We need to fix how we relate, be a real neighborhood instead of just people sharing a street and never talking to each other. Seriously folks, isn't it obvious???
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
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Violent video games.
24 hour media coverage.
Hands off parenting.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:31pm PT
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Locker were not talking about that tool, or are we?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
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By isolated I mean individual rather than mass.
Big difference.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
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I am reposting this because I really think this is the real issue.
The whole gun debate is distracting, we are avoiding the real issue. We as a nation are suffering because we lack a proper social structure. We don't have town squares, a place where people can connect to those living around them. This whole individual bubble isolation isn't working. We need to fix how we relate, be a real neighborhood instead of just people sharing a street and never talking to each other. Seriously folks, isn't it obvious???
People are getting sick and no one is noticing or... Helping... That needs to change BIG TIME. We are social animals. We need each other.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:36pm PT
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Anastasia, not saying shelter them from the facts... shelter them from the 24 hour sensationalized bullshit coverage. Seeing someone die is one thing. I've held 2 people as they took their last breath... it is a very real, very visceral experience. Seeing the sensationalized account played over and over and over and over with conjecture and speculation and drama and blah blah blah blah is an entirely different thing. I imagine your parent's attitude reflects the deep experience they had more than the fact that they witnessed people dying. You can't have that experience from sensationalized TV coverage, it only desensitizes.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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Sheltering a child from violence... I am calling B.S. on that since my parents "GREW UP IN A WAR ZONE." They saw kids shot, people starved, horrible acts such as folks steeling for survival from their elders and... Seeing the victims of that theft die as a result. They were not homicidal maniacs because they saw such horrible stuff. They were the nicest, most moral, generous people I ever knew. Explain That!!!!
I think the difference is that they saw it FOR REAL. They had to witness what really happens to real people. There is a big difference between personal experience and impersonal. I'm not a zealot about video games but as my son was growing up I was rather stunned about the level of disgusting impersonal violence in games I thought were supposed to have minimal stuff in it. The ones with warnings must be horrific.
It's terribly complex with no easy answers....and lamenting about what once was is no answer.
Susan
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John M
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
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Guns aren't evil.. they just make it easier.
news in and of itself isn't evil.. but how its played over and over with the intent to create fear/anxiety is evil. Exposure isn't a simple thing. It isn't simply that if one sees violence, then one will become violent and if one doesn't see or experience violence then one doesn't become violent. There is much more to it.
I believe that one of the bigger drivers in our country of these events is our glorification of violence. You see it in video games, in tv shows, in movies,, in books, in magazines, even in commercials. Everywhere you turn, there is glorification of violence. I believe that this is different then respect for ones ability to defend oneself. Respect is different then glorification. Respect is tempered with humility.
The thing about this issue is that there isn't just one driver. There are many.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:46pm PT
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Anastasia wrote: The whole gun debate is distracting, we are avoiding the real issue.
You have a right to your opinion...There is a gun problem in this country. you don't need a AK to kill a deer.
I agree with your other points...this country is really messed up socially.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
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Violent video games.
24 hour media coverage.
Hands off parenting.
I'd reverse the order.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
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Folks that need to do great violence to people they don't even know are incredible cowards. Mostly are afraid of life, blame the world for their troubles, their situation.
Brave men can face themselves and know... If there is a problem, it starts with them and they have no desire to blame someone else. They can handle life. Instead they don't look for the source of difficulties to find the blame, instead they simply conquer them.
I grew up with a brave man. My father was something else.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
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"We have a COWARD problem. Whether we're talking mass-murder or street violence, these acts are committed by COWARDS. COWARDS with guns."...
I find that a ridiculous statement and one that is false...
why is that locker?
we don't know how the shooter died in this incident, but in most of these cases, these folks kill themselves because they don't want to face the consequences
Brandon, re your link. it seems in all those other countries, there is a war or threat of war scenario. in that situation, guns for self defense are probably a necessity
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:49pm PT
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I'd reverse the order.
I'd agree with that.
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