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lightweight_yank
Trad climber
Sparx
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May 20, 2006 - 04:21am PT
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Stew - you did meet me, though only briefly, but you gave my friend Dave Yerian the inscribed Spam can. You guessed it, EtOH is what organic chemists call ethyl alcohol, or ethanol. I managed to stay relatively sober the night of the memorial (unlike last night); I spent most of the time talking to Daryl's sister and her husband. I must admit that I was overwhelmed by both the outpouring of love for Daryl and the hospitality you guys showed us Yanks. I remember when we passed around Daryl's Yo hammer, how you mentioned the water incident and how gracious he was -- that's the Daryl I remember.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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May 20, 2006 - 04:31am PT
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(Smiling)
This is about Janelle... She is why my mothering instincts went up on high alert. She's young and pretty. Plus she is posting on the net which can attract the wrong characters.
That is why I focused on woman's violence.
Now don't feel left out, I worry about you too. If your ever around, I will try to over feed you and make you wear your jacket at the slightest breeze. I'll protect you from evil men and women to the best of my ability. It is a Greek thing.
Though seriously, I do agree with you that everyone should be spared having the experience of violence. This is not just a girl/woman thing. We should all watch our backs. That is why I worry... Now don't take my post out of context. I am not a man hater, I don't see danger at every corner.
I just want to make my point powerful enough to keep Janelle well protected by her own conscious. She is smart enough to use the information correctly. Plus, she is the only person that will always be with her when facing such obstacles.
Anastasia
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daryl_hattens_daughter
climber
saskatchewan, canada
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2006 - 10:12am PT
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wow you guys...looks like i have people that care haha. I understand what both of you are saying and i totally agree with b oth. Thankyou for worrying but please dont get upset about this...ill be careful i promise.
jack-thankyou for the link to cascadeclimbers....thats neat also.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 20, 2006 - 07:04pm PT
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*bump*
hey anastasia, you are going to be a star wife and mom someday.
i hope you get to meet lisa at some point.
when in boulder, look us up.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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May 20, 2006 - 08:50pm PT
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Anastasia - I hope I didn't offend you. Your mothering insincts sparkle throughout your postings here, and I share your rage about violence against women, particularly since women tend to be smaller than men and less inclined towards violenct behaviour - I have believed since childhood that coward is the kindest name for someone who unleashes violence against a helpless opponent. How about directing Janelle to some of the better internet sites dedicated to discussing this subject? That way, other people on this forum who also wish to follow this thread can continue the discussion without having to endure the aforementioned cheap shots...
On lighter note, but before I get started, I am a total rookie in terms of participating in these sort of forums, so please go easy on me in terms of lapses of e-manners, etc. I offer my profuse apologies in advance to those I may accidentally offend by my ignorance.
Back to Daryl, and my thanks to lightweight yank for the info and clarification. By the way, does everyone know that "lightweight" is a term that as far as I know Daryl imported into the climbing world, and was used regularly and without mercy?
Here's another Daryl story: Many years ago in the days of the UVic Rock Scaling club, I regularly led groups of people into a place on southern Vancouver Island called Sansum Narrows - it's got acres of unclimbed rock, but the approach is a horror show - a maze of partially overgrown trails, logging roads, etc., and god help anyone who gets lost. Anyway, I had been in there probably twenty or thirty times and Daryl and I were heading in with a bunch of beginners. We came to one of the crucial crossroads and a debate arose between Daryl & I about the proper direction. The debate became quite heated, culminating in me declaring that "you go wherever you want - I'm going this way." Mercifully for them, the beginners followed Daryl, and I went storming off into the shadows. Soon enough, I realized that even for me, I had just made a serious navigational error. No problem, since I had at least a general idea of the layout of the area, so I took another promising trail and soon knew exactly where I was - way off route. The only way out was several miles of the foulest bushwhacking imaginable, culminating in the crossing of of a shallow river bordered by some of the foulest smelling mud flats in the galaxy, and then a slog along a dusty road under a baking sun just to get back to the start point. Finally, I appeared in the midst of all the beginners, who had the good sense to keep their mouths shut, since I was clearly not in a good mood. I spotted Daryl in a midst of a few of the more depraved beginners, rolling a joint and perched on the edge of a 300 foot cliff. As I approached, their conversation slowly ceased. I was covered in mud, twigs, and I don't know what else, but must have resembled some bog monster from darkest regions of hell. Daryl just glanced at me and went back to rolling the joint. A moment of silence ensued, and I thought that was the end of my ordeal. Nope. Still intent on his work, Daryl said, "that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen anybody do in my life". These were nearly his final words, since it took an act of heroic self-control on my part not to punt him over the edge of the abyss.
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daryl_hattens_daughter
climber
saskatchewan, canada
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2006 - 11:17pm PT
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hah that would've sucked but at the same time i can picture it and its funny ...
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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May 21, 2006 - 03:17am PT
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Yeah - that's why people aren't supposed to yield to those kind of impulses. Think of what would have been lost...
Here's another one, but don't forget that I was born five years before Daryl and when I first ran into him, he wasn't much of a free climber and even less of an aid climber. I finally realized that he had a pretty steep learning curve one day when I was gearing up to lead a route, and was with Tom Egan and Claudia Hand (one of the best of the very few female rock climbers on Vancouver Island in those days). I was facing away from the cliff not paying attention to what Daryl was up to, and Tom and Claudia seemed to be looking at me, but not making much eye contact. Finally, I got the picture. Turning around, I couldn't see Daryl at first, but finally thought to look up - the bugger had just finished soloing the route that I was intending to lead. Now I had to find something harder, which didn't particularly please me, since I was feeling particularly faint-hearted that day.
A sad, but relevant footnote to the story: Tom was one of the best rock climbers on the Island (and no slouch as a mountaineer, either) in those days and a hell of a good guy. I remember one evening us heading up to Sansum Narrows in the new (used) vehicle of a worthless jerk who also was a member of our circle. Anyway, the idea of thrashing to the base of the cliffs seemed like a dumb idea at the time, particularly since we had a couple of perfectly good cases of beer with us. It seem like a great idea to get really drunk and head in the next morning. Soon, I became uh, drowsy, and crawled into my sleeping bag. I was just drifting off when I heard a whoop, a screech of brakes and the sound of metal bending suddenly and nearby. The place where we were sleeping was beside the road at the top of a hill leading to a corner on the unpaved road to Maple Bay. It seems that Tom and Daryl decided that we needed some more beer and, unbeknownst to the owner were heading into town to remedy the situation and forgot to turn the steering wheel to the left at the bottom of the hill, or maybe they were both trying to turn it in different directions. Strangely enough, the owner was somewhat annoyed that they had pranged his car on its maiden voyage. Come to think of it, he was almost hysterical with rage and was trying to explain how annoyed he was to the perpetrators, but they were laughing so hysterically that he eventually gave up and stormed off back up the hill uttering dark threats about what was going to happen to those guys in the morning.
Tragically, Tom was killed a few months later. I remember talking to Daryl about it, and suggested that we do a memorial route for poor Tom. Daryl didn't say much at the time, and I was still thinking about a suitable location when, during this interval, Daryl headed off and I didn't see him for a while. When he got back, he told me that (definitely not his words - it wasn't his style to brag)he had done a major new route named after Tom in the Bugaboos. It is still considered a respectable ascent for just about anybody even today. I have no doubt that Tom would have been overwhelmed at the thoughtfulness of this gesture.
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daryl_hattens_daughter
climber
saskatchewan, canada
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2006 - 10:30am PT
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awe im sorry for your loss...
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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May 21, 2006 - 08:45pm PT
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No offense taken, I thought we were just having a good debate. Debates must have at least one good argument; without it a conclusion has no substance.
Thanks Tarbuster for the compliment, I will look you up when I get a chance. Lisa sounds terrific. Don't forget to do the same when your near/in Southern California.
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lightweight_yank
Trad climber
Sparx
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May 22, 2006 - 01:21am PT
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Thanks for those memories Stew. As all climbers know, it can be really hard to find a good climbing partner; that person with whom you can trust your life unquestionably; who shares your goals and dreams; who both encourages and challenges you to push harder, and do things you didn't know you could do. Daryl was just such a person, and oddly, his death had an unexpected result in that regard.
Although there was only three of us who made it up from California to Squamish for the memorial; there were several of Daryl's friends who couldn't. One of those was Mike Hernandez, and when I got back home with the remainder of Daryl's ashes that Jim Brennan had given me, Mike helped me get those ashes to the top of the Captain where Daryl's spirit rests. Although I had met Mike over 20 years ago, I didn't really know him, but the experience drew us close, and we found that we were both looking for a climbing partner. Whom else could you trust so implicitly? So automatically? And with such unqualified love as one who had also been one of Daryl's friends? You Canadians showed us that that night at Squamish, and Mike and I have been climbing together ever since. Thanks Daryl.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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May 22, 2006 - 01:52am PT
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Thanks, Janelle - Tom was a really good guy. He was far from a beginner, but he was just starting to get a lot better when he was killed.
Sometimes, I can be quite stupid about the things I write, so here's something I want to make abundantly clear - there was a fair amount of recreational drinking and drug abuse back then, and many climbers in those days were a pretty wild crowd, probably because the climbing world that I knew was a pretty counter-culture activity and not the mainstream industry that it is today: you don't get many style points for getting regularly falling down drunk amongst your peers any more. Having said that and, in spite of some of these stories I have posted, I don't want you for one second to think that I'm glamourizing that kind of behaviour - extreme sports mixed with dope and/or booze is a very easy way to end up dead. When Daryl hung around with the UVic Rock Scaling Club, we kept an eye out for each other - for example, when we stopped off at the bar one of us always took on the designated driver role and drank pop while the rest of us got plastered. At the end of the evening, it was his/her responsibility to make sure the rest of us got home in one piece, and in Squamish, there was an area where we camped called "Psyche Ledge" where we did most of our partying AFTER the cars were parked for the evening. I'd be lying if I said that there was no drinking and driving going on, but precious little that I was aware of - not to mention that the laws against that kind of conduct were a lot looser - no breathalyzer tests, for example.
Try not to think of me as too much of a hypocrite when I ask you to steer clear of that kind of stuff at the very least until you're older. Too many people get killed stupidly at a young age before they have even begun the very best part of their lives because of dope or booze, and it would break the hearts of hundreds of people people you have never met if something happened to you. I believe that Daryl would STILL be hanging out in Yosemite (or wherever) if he had been able to control his partying a bit better - perhaps there would be fewer stories to tell about his legendary activities on the ground, but he surely would have done even more amazing stuff on the walls and in the mountains had he been able to better avoid those temptations.
Just one example: Daryl's climbing resume makes mine look pretty pathetic, but one day we were bouldering down at Fleming Beach in Victoria with a bunch of other people and Daryl had been drinking a lot more than I realized. He headed up the cliff to set up a top rope by a route that was easy enough for me to climb unroped and without the slightest fear. I had my back to him when I heard an ugly sound behind me - he had fallen off, fortunately with only minor injuries.
Here's a story I told at the Memorial on top of the Chief that highlights Daryl's gentler side: After we decided to head down Zodiac Wall after having turned back about 5 feet from the end of the climbing difficulties, I was in a foul mood for a variety of reasons - not the least being that we might have made it if we hadn't been hauling so much garbage along (the third member of the group). We were getting ready to bivi for the night, and I was still sulking when Daryl reached into my pack and handed me a bunch of photos I had along with me (before we had started the climb, I had mentioned that my wife-to-be had given me some photos of her for good luck, and he didn't seem to have heard me). What he said when he handed them to me up there was "Here, man - groove."
Hope that last story was worth enduring the lecture...
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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May 22, 2006 - 02:05am PT
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Dear lightweight yank: I was deeply impressed that you guys had taken so much trouble to come up there to say goodbye to your friend, and to carry some of his spirit back to the Valley. I don't get over to Squamish much these days due to poor health and worse financial circumstances, but stay in touch if you're heading up here again & maybe we'll meet again when I'm more capable of coherent conversation. He was lucky to have pals like you down there, and it was a privilege to have met you.
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lightweight_yank
Trad climber
Sparx
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May 22, 2006 - 03:22am PT
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God I know Stew. As much as I want to reach out to Janelle, as Daryl's friend, I want to protect her from gathering the wrong impression or misconstruing the context in which her father lived.
We lived in a time when climbing was a much, much more dangerous endeavour - a cutting-edge sport where egos were minimalized and accomplishments spoke loudest. And quiet heroes like our friend Daryl were cherished most.
I have often spoken privately of Daryl as the master of the vertical world, but just needing a little of our help in the horizontal. Hopefully, some day I can tell Janelle in a way that she will truly understand, about the man who was her father, the context of his life, his pain, and what he meant to us.
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daryl_hattens_daughter
climber
saskatchewan, canada
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2006 - 01:25pm PT
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stewart-first off thanks for 'worring or trying to protect me'....but i live with my aunt and uncle and they dont let me drink and i dont smoke or do drugs or nething...but i tend to learn from other peoples mistakes....and i choose not to chance ruining my life/future with something like that. But thanks.
so....everyone....did you guys know about my mom or did he just not talk about it....or i dunno because ive always wondered if he ever thought of us or told anyone about us...after all they did get married...which was a big step for my mom...but anyways...yea i just wanted to know...you dont have to answer if you dont want to but please? haha thanx
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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May 23, 2006 - 04:21am PT
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Dear lightweight yank - that line about Daryl just about sums it all up.
Dear Janelle: I met your mother twice - once at the wedding and another time at my place. I'm not sure what else to say other than Greg met her too, but I'd have to ask around to see if anyone else met her. Before I get back to you, I'd like to say (others might disagree) that Daryl was in some ways a pretty private person - the wild man behaviour aside. In all the time I knew him, he rarely spoke to me of ANYONE that he was related to, but I suspect that underneath the legendary toughness lurked a very sensitive person who had trouble opening up to others about his feelings, but if you go back to that story of mine about the pictures in my pack, it seems obvious that he was doing what he could to cheer me up as best he could at the time.
I don't have the slightest doubt that he thought of you often, and he never told me why he broke up with your mother, but I guess that they just decided that the marriage wasn't working. Again, I'm just guessing, but when they broke up and your mother left, he felt either that it was best for you to go with her or else that he would definitely lose an expensive custody battle in court as a result of his previous scrapes with the law. Please understand that we also wondered how you were doing but, again, if Daryl didn't want to talk about something - that was the end of the discussion. Period.
I hope the above words are of some use. Perhaps he didn't think talking about this stuff would be of any use - he made his own rules. Outside of his own family, I'm pretty sure I knew him longer than anyone and can't think of us ever actually sitting and talking about anything deeply personal. By the time you showed up, I was getting ready to move to Squamish and only I saw him a few times after that.
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daryl_hattens_daughter
climber
saskatchewan, canada
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2006 - 08:43am PT
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yea ok..i was just wondering...i can understand that....and respect that. thanks
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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May 23, 2006 - 11:09am PT
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Hi Janelle! I hung out with your Dad quite a bit in Camp 4 back in the day. I don't think he had a single enemy - everybody liked him. Super funny guy and was always nice to everyone. We definitely had some hilarious moments with hin in the Valley - he kept us all laughing. He definitely lived life to the fullest whenever he could and he was always ready to help out his bros with whatever they needed. I think I speak for everyone that knew him that we all miss him being around. I got some pretty hilarious stories about your Dad if you're ever interested but don't feel like I should put them out there for the "public" if you know what I mean. Above all I'd have to say he was a solid guy with a huge heart - never met anyone quite like him. Always remember that like your Dad, your part of a huge family of climbers just because you're a Hatten! (and that's a good thing!) cheers, john
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daryl_hattens_daughter
climber
saskatchewan, canada
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2006 - 08:03pm PT
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haha awe thanks...well my last names not hatten anymore..after he and my mom split she legally changed my name to Gutting....so i dunno but on my birth certificate it says hatten so yea. yea i know what you mean about putting stuff on here and about it being public. Yea it totally seems liek i just discovered liek a whole new world talkign to all these friends of my dads and it sooo supercool. everyone has been so helpful and understanding and i still cant believe all this is happening.
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doser
Mountain climber
Vancouver BC
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May 24, 2006 - 02:53am PT
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Hi Janelle,
Good on ya, kid, for plunging out into the world and digging a bit to understand your roots. That's an important part of becoming an adult, and you seem to be well on your way.
I was friendly with your dad and our paths crossed socially and at the base of the crags, but I never tied on and climbed with him - I'm at least 10 years older than him, and while he was headed for Squamish and Yosemite I was mostly headed for the mountains. Even granted that, however, he was the only person I've ever encountered outside my immediate family who could wish me on my way with an enthusiatic, genuine "I love you, man!", totally without embarrassment or posturing. Daryl was a really unique person, full of life, humour, and 'joie de vive', and I'd urge you to send PMs to Greg Foweraker and Stewart (Wosny) to get more stories and deeper insight into his personality and life - they both knew him extremely well and cared for him greatly.
Cheers, and may your journey be fruitful,
Don Serl
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Mari Lewis
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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May 25, 2006 - 12:43am PT
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Hi, my name is Kit Lewis. I was friends with Daryl since 1975 when I met him in Squamish. We were friends for years. We climbed infquently together for many years. Daryl and I were very kindred spirits; some people calling me the American Daryl because of my similar ways. One of the finest people I've ever met in my life was Daryl and I have many fond memories of our times spent together. He was one of the most honest, gregarious souls you could ever meet. We all miss him.
Kind Regards,
Kit Lewis
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