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The Call Of K2 Lou
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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mcreel, the safe way to take bath salts is as a suppository.
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JoJo229
climber
west
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
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-we're talking about retro bolting where no natural pro exists, not bolting cracks.
-I agree that top roping is a good alternative to climbing R/X routes. Unfortunately I like long routes and don't carry around 500+ feet of rope.
-people have good points. less bolts=good, top roping=good alternative in some cases,
-leaving a rout with deck/death potential for eternity=really dumb egomaniacal BS
My main grief is that where I live most FAs were done by people not from around here. I've lived here forever and so has my family for generations. People happen to be born and climbed earlier and now I have to leave their dumb routes forever while they drive back to the bay or LA. L.A.M.E
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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leaving a rout with deck/death potential for eternity=really dumb egomaniacal BS Every route that I've ever climbed had death potential. Including the one with red tape at the gym. The ones with more DP than I was comfortable with, I didn't do.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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"Edging Skills or Hospital Bills" in the Meadows, nothing prevents you from top-roping it. You won't have the same experience as someone leading it the way Bacher did, but you still have the line to climb.
Ahh...and this is where it began
Edging Skills FA Burk/Cantwell; when they were about 16. It followed the prominant dike trending up and left...they called it 5.11.After all, it was 1974 or so, and they were in EBs. "Skelletal Remains," or somesuch.
Now then, if you've studied early TM guidebook editions, you will see that John followed the dike to its halfway point, then proceeded directly upward. Then made a decision to erase the established route (now crossed by 3 Sport Routes - led each myself, clipping every bolt while I was at it.
So, John had cajones - he was once once on the cover of Life Magazine.
He is also Dead.
Or did you not think it was inevitable? The House always wins, and, if you disagree, play your hand, or watch TV.
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JoJo229
climber
west
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 07:56pm PT
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How about this: I don't have a 4-wheel drive vehicle, but I want to go everywhere there are roads. All dirt roads should be paved. If you don't like them, don't drive on them.
Not talking about making a climb easier, just not intentionally more dangerous than it needs to be
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Not talking about making a climb easier, just not intentionally more dangerous than it needs to be
the wiggle room in that statement means that others can take your pure intent and defile it with their human actions.
"than it needs to be" is not quantifiable due to changes in people's ability, perception, population, etc.
That it can change in one direction means it can change back at a later date, thus the decision should be made that causes the least amount of damage once common consensus changes with whatever the future brings.
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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" don't clip the bolt" How about this for an analogy, You say your going to do a "hammerless" ascent of El Cap but you throw a hammer in the bottom of the bag. It's not the same level of commitment. You have given yourself a out if things get too dicey, same as adding the bolt . It is there , so you have your saftey net, not the same climb or level of commitment. It's like Pipeline, if it's above your skill level DON'T PADDEL OUT KOOK! :) Cheers ( not all routes or surf spots are for everyone)
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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I don't climb anymore, but when I did, we practiced this old-timey thing called "clean climbing". I did it because thats the way you did it. I assumed that terror was just part of the game.
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Locker you are right about Ego, but I think it's about knowing your limits. I think it's Ego if you add a bolt to a climb that's above your skill or level of commitment, just so you can do the route. that's why after 30 plus years of surf and climbing you won't see me out at pipe or on the Bacher/Yerian." A man has got to know his limitations."
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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These threads should last about 20 or 30 posts maximum. All is said by then, what follows is thread drift and personal crap.
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slodog
Trad climber
ontario canada
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this is the dumbest post i've seen on super topo-climb in the gym if you dont like the crags-you like long routes and a 500 foot rope for toproping is not cool so you'll take a drill to bring the rock down to your level??find another hobby champ your obviously a tad ....soft for rock climbing
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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I think the fa has the word simply because there are many styles of climbing from the ego run-out to the well protected sport climb and everything in between and the fa's ascent represents that style. There is something for everyone out there. You don't have to climb the ego climb if it's not your bag any more then you have to climb the sport route. You can also make some of your own. There's miles of rock out there and plenty of climbers of all stripes still putting up quality routes of all stripes. All types should be in there original state for all types to climb and enjoy. Because why do you pick a climb anyway?
I personally love the run-out climbs. I haven't seen that type of climbing progress much beyond what those climbers accomplished for that given space and time. I love the fact that there is a human being who put up a climb called Burning Down the House that no-one else has climbed since. Doesn't matter what style it was climbed in...It's there waiting. I will personally chop any bolt I find not approved by any FA member on ANY kind of climb. If the FA party agreed to changes to their statement fine. You don't have to clip it. But don't f-ck it up for some-one else. There has to be some rules or it will all go to hell and end up the color of mud....
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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These threads should last about 20 or 30 posts maximum. All is said by then, what follows is thread drift and personal crap.
well put by donini again. i'm getting used to this guy.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Just posting here is personal crap and ego, myself included...Donini gets to post his, I get to post mine, and the ones that post saying they don't care and to move on, I say bullsh-t.....
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Hey Donini, it's a discussion, if your over it " don't click the bolt" ....heh,heh,heh
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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There's too many goddam bolts already.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Too many bolts, then quit putting up all those granite slab routes in Cali. Stick to natural lines. I've put in 4 bolts, all hand drilled, in 46 years of climbing and a lot of first ascents- rock and alpine. I keep finding new routes where the rock yields protection sans bolts and I'm so old I need reading glasses.
Do natural lines and retro bolting is never an issue.
edit: Something to think about. A climb with bolts means where the protection is placed is a somewhat arbitrary decision of the first ascent party. On a natural line the architecture of the rock creates the protection opportunities. If bolts are arbitrary, retro bolting is yet another arbitrary decision which has nothing to do with the NATURAL ARCHITECTURE of the rock.
You are the judge rather than what you are given by nature.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Do natural lines and retro bolting is never an issue."
Sounds good. I'm for it.
Or grow a sac.
Seems like it's a little late for this, though, donchathink? Those goddam bolts are everywhere, and they ain't goin' away.
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