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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
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Mar 23, 2012 - 10:29am PT
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Cold blooded murder!
And the PD are totally spineless and corrupt...
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Mar 23, 2012 - 10:58am PT
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Elcap--While that may be true, unless you did it yourself, how can you be certain that was the procedure followed by CNN and not some further "enhancing"? While I've had less experience with "sound", I have personally seen a number of supposedly "cleaned-up" digital images that were in fact "altered"--it is amazing what changing a few pixels can do!!!! My main point is, however, that the portions of Zimmerman's calls that didn't require any "clean-up" are damning in themselves--let alone his history of multiple prior unnecessary 911s.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 11:26am PT
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I feel threatened by the NRA may I shoot NRA members?
I was once a member. I left the NRA because it is one of the most corrupt business around.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 23, 2012 - 12:33pm PT
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what a bunch of trigger happy repuglican pansy assed whimps!
Hey, who are you calling repuglican?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2012 - 12:39pm PT
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Them florida gunslingers.. The ones who passed the law and those who use it to hunt people.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Mar 23, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
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I left the NRA because it is one of the most corrupt business around
+1
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ATS
climber
Mountain Project
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Mar 23, 2012 - 01:31pm PT
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Seems entirely reasonable to me. If someone is forceably entering my house or car I'm gonna be afraid for my life. If I had a gun, I wouldn't think twice about it. If I am elsewhere and someone attacks me, I'm gonna be afraid in that situation, too. People need to act civilly to one another. Breaking into my place or attacking me when I'm out isn't civil behavior. It's hostile aggression, plain and simple. The consequences become their problem. What wrong with that?
Agreed
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ATS
climber
Mountain Project
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Mar 23, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
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Hopefully the Feds will come in and prosecute this jackass and send him to prison for most of the rest of his life.
It's not a Federal Gov't issue (and Obama should keep his mouth shut). Murder, manslaughter etc occur every day and they are for the most part investigated by local authorities/jurisdictions.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Mar 23, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
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Actually if there is a racial/civil rights issue, it IS a fed issue. Secondly, you seem to have missed the fact that this wasn't inside someone's house, that the killer chased and accosted the kid, and the local DA/PD have not done a damn thing to investigate. They didn't even ID the kid for several days despite his cell phone being there.
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ATS
climber
Mountain Project
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Mar 23, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
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Dave, unless or until it is considered a "hate crime" or something of the sorts, I don't see the "civil right violation" in this case.
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ATS
climber
Mountain Project
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Mar 23, 2012 - 01:52pm PT
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Sounds like Voluntary Manslaughter. If the Feds were to "rightly" get involved, it would be with investigating the LEOs in charge. But since this is starting to get political they will get involved and more spin about gun restrictions and racial dividing will occur.
It's a tragic thing that happened to this young fellow and his family.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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this brochure is clear about the use of deadly force:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/forms/P-00090-DeadlyForce-0911.pdf
it's not a bad law; i don't think there's anything in it that's disagreeable (what's bad is that it needs to be spelled out)
i doubt zimmerman can be charged with murder; likely manslaughter, but a conviction may be difficult because the only witness is dead--who can prove that zimmerman did not fear for his life?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Mar 23, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
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I don't think there will be a need to prove anything about whether he feared for his life.
The law as written indicates that the shooter would have to be in a place he was legally entitled to be, and it appears he was in someone's yard, not his own, which I assume would be trespassing.
Seems to me the SYG law doesn't apply in this case, and therefore fear for his life is not a factor. I wonder what a jury will think about his claiming fear for his life when he got out of his car, chased the kid, accosted him, and outweighed him by about 100lb. If I'm on that jury, I ain't buying it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 23, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
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I stand by my prediction.
Civil rights is civil rights. There doesn't have to be a hate crime act, but in this case it sure sounds like there WAS.
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Gene
climber
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Mar 23, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
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who can prove that zimmerman did not fear for his life?
The issue is whether Zimmerman had a reasonable fear that his life was in danger. Did he have options that would not have resulted in Trayvon’s death while maintaing his own (Zimmerman's) security? Was he told to butt out by 911? Did he? Were his actions reasonable? Let a jury decide.
g
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Mar 23, 2012 - 03:56pm PT
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bookworm said, who can prove that zimmerman did not fear for his life?
Besides all the other above information...More information the police knew the day of the shooting....Two witnesses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cWwUAbbWnk&feature=related
Two more..
This one is creepy, you can hear the kid yelling for help several times.....then the gun goes off...I feel sick after listening to this. It made me cry thinking about how scared the kid was...no one helped, and the police disregarded the witnesses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj4RHJ0taoc&feature=related
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
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Sounds like Voluntary Manslaughter. If the Feds were to "rightly" get involved, it would be with investigating the LEOs in charge. But since this is starting to get political they will get involved and more spin about gun restrictions and racial dividing will occur.
The issue is neither gun restrictions nor racial dividing per se, although the latter is certainly involved. If the races of shooter and shootee were reversed, would there still be no prosecution? Nonetheless, that's only part of the issue.
The Civil Rights Act has enabled prosecutions and civil actions for homocides and violence that could not have taken place under state laws. When an American is deprived of a basic right (i.e. life) because of conflicting state laws, the federal government has a legitimate federal interest, according to the 14th Amendment.
Also, this does not appear to be manslaughter, although I could see a jury reaching that conclusion. To me, Zimmerman's actions demonstrated malice aforethought, which differentiates manslaughter from murder.
One other comment: One of the particularly bizarre things about the Florida law concerns its burden of proof in a civil suit. Normally, the plaintiff's burden is a perponderance of the evidence. By making the criminal case control the civil case, it transforms the plaintiff's burden to one of beyond a reasonable doubt.
John
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 23, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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Geraldo Rivera blames hoodie for Trayvon's death on Fox.
Don't be wearin gangsta clothing he's implying ......
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
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local news is reporting the following:
zimmerman's face was bloodied
the screaming on the 911 call is zimmerman
witness who called 911 told police on the scene that he saw "a man in white" on top of and punching "a man in red": martin was wearing white, zimmerman was wearing red
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