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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Feb 22, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
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Hey Aidan, Brandon and I lead it the day after you put it up. Well, I lead it anyway. I linked it with Telesis in one long pitch to the top. Rope drag city, wouldn't reccommend it. I had to back clean every clip.
Anyway, its good.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2012 - 11:03pm PT
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Good to hear. I was going to go up and do the same 1 long pitch. Won't bother now. What do you think 10+?
You should go up and try the Falcon (above the Fang) and tell me what you think. You also need to get up and straighten second pitch of Ghost (which by the way is officially sanctioned by Edwin Drummond when I asked him few years ago)
a
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Norman Collie was one of the great British mountaineers of the 1880s and 90s. Considered one of the best climbers of his generation, he believed in climbing without guides, making first ascents of some of the hardest climbs of the Alps at that time, an audacious attempt on Nanga Parbat in 1895, and much exploratory climbing in the Canadian Rockies.
Towards the end of his life, he was disturbed by the changes that had taken place in climbing, but had this to say in the end:
"Civilization has stretched out its hand and changed it all, and though those who know the old days are somewhat sad that the old order has changed, yielding place to new, yet the new order is good, and the land of the great woods, lakes, mountains and rushing rivers is still mysterious enough to please anyone who has eyes to see, and can understand."
I guess if it bothers you too much, there's still a lot of hills left to hike over and check out the new. Imagine.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2012 - 06:08pm PT
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Well said Mr Branscomb.
There is still huge amounts of adventure, excitement, beauty and challenge in climbing and it is hard to believe that will ever change. Even an increasingly popular destination like Sugarloaf has lost very little of it's hard and fear provoking climbs, or beauty. Being up on the west face dicing around on tiny holds with bolts below your feet and the aplpen glow lighting up the route is as brilliant today as it was 20 years or more. It's just for the most part the people who are rising to the challenge are different.
a
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 26, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
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Because i was on the first ascent of a couple of the old school routes mentioned {Tapestry and Bolee Gold} i cant resist adding my two cents worth.Back in the day we had a measure of respect (albeit grudging)of the efforts of those that came before us.When we repeated earlier horrorshows like Fat Merchants Crack or Incubus we actually tried to improve upon style by climbing them clean and hammerless.So, please forgive me if i condemn these modern gutless wonders after they add 8 or 9 bolts to a established route and in essence erase a thing of beauty established with real peril by those that came before.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 27, 2012 - 01:17am PT
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Just wondering, how come do people that put a bolt every body length on 1st pitch of Bolee Gold complain about bolting so much? It is ok to bolt a 5.10 like a sport climb, but 5.8 has to be as run out as possible. Great logic.
On the other hand this last weekend I was lucky to make it to the loaf on one of the days. One of the routes we climbed was Morticia. I thought it was a fun route, and without excessive bolting. I think it was about 20 ft from last bolt to the anchors. I had fun though. Two mental cruxs for me were the traverse around the roof and getting to the 1st bolt, and getting to another one somewhere in the middle. Also, found out you put up another 5.9 just around the corner (with black bolts), can't wait to get on it.
On the other hand it is obvious why no one cares to do Lurch...
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 27, 2012 - 01:22am PT
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Because i was on the first ascent of a couple of the old school routes mentioned {Tapestry and Bolee Gold} i cant resist adding my two cents worth.Back in the day we had a measure of respect (albeit grudging)of the efforts of those that came before us.When we repeated earlier horrorshows like Fat Merchants Crack or Incubus we actually tried to improve upon style by climbing them clean and hammerless.So, please forgive me if i condemn these modern gutless wonders after they add 8 or 9 bolts to a established route and in essence erase a thing of beauty established with real peril by those that came before.
Right on!
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 27, 2012 - 08:19am PT
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mr. sumner,
i am a big fan of your routes.
i would not add bolts to your routes,
instead i find one that intrigues me
and then save up the courage that
it will demand.
regards and thank you for authoring routes that have pushed me along as a climber and as a person.
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Scott Thelen
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Mar 27, 2012 - 10:44am PT
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Please stop bolting at the loaf
Barf!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 27, 2012 - 11:15am PT
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I am pretty sure Rick was saying that Bolee Gold was retroed, so it had less bolts when he put it up. And I still wouldn't consider it bolted every body length, least not between bolts two and three. Course, I'm probably just a gutless wonder ;).
There were bolts added to Bolee Gold? I did not know that (but I do not know a lot. I just come to sugarloaf to climb, not to get deep into this ethics debate etc).
I thought Lurch was a one star climb. Morticia is a much better climb. Really cool sustained moves through and past the roof all the way to the last bolt. I managed to get a load of rope drag as well which made the bolted part really exciting. I should have extended the cam I put in the roof a lot more I guess. That part was exciting too, for me. All the moves are there and super solid, but I was fairly tense because I did not know that. + when I just started climbing 2 years ago I did not make it up morticia on TR, was nice to be back to lead it.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Mar 27, 2012 - 11:45am PT
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Good to hear from Mr. Sumner. I saw him at the Leap a few years ago and talked a bit. Still a fit looking man.
I was always in awe of his routes. Probably backed off more of his routes than I've done. That was a big part of the paradigm in the 70s and 80s, that has been forgotten now, it seems: the mental composure element to be able to get out on those big hard run outs. It was a big deal and, to me (just my own personal outlook), I have tremendous respect for that just because I think (again for me) that composure under fire is one of the marks of a real climber.
In those days you would have been hung by your thumbs at the top of Main Wall if you'd retrobolted someone's route.
Just for myself, I would never retrobolt someone else's route to make it 'safer', because I'm not so sure that my real rationalization isn't really one of "I can't commit to that level'. Better to back off and come back another day when you feel up to it, as far as I'm concerned.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 27, 2012 - 11:31pm PT
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For those that answered my comments thankyou. We originally did Bolee Gold with two maybe three bolts tops other than the in-situ ones at the hanging belay for Hookers Haven. The second pitch was 5.10c unprotected right off the belay before becoming much easier shortly above. Any additional bolts other than the 2 or 3 protection bolts and the belay bolts have been added after the fact. Now what i have a real problem with is the erasure of Tapestry 5.10 x and replacement with an 8 or 9 bolt abomination called crushed velvet. Hell, the recent guidebooks don't even mention Tapestry, as if it never existed.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Mar 27, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
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Rick, keep up the pressure on the retrobolters. Thanks for not falling into that broken record we hear so often..."well nowadays it should be safe and fun for all" or "we were just crazy kids".
Many of those climbs define us, who work hard to send them. All that crap added in between has removed that option for those who choose to rise up.
It is not enough for modern stewards of stone making their voices heard. Original FA speaking up and offering the story of the path they took, so cool. Maybe not enough to stop the damage, but make em think twice when they see somebody coming up the trail.
That sh#t is constant in tahoe, overeager bolting crazes fueled by sections of blank stone. No original vision? With all of that tahoe gold out there? Such a shame.
Do away with the new "Variations"
Do away with the power drills
Do away with the convienence
Do away with the retrobolting
Do away with the spray on routes that had been done for decades.
You know who you are.
Such a shame.
Mucci
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Chalky Fingers
climber
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Mar 28, 2012 - 12:57am PT
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Rick, I had a long conversation with Chris Mac about this and other routes erased by the Smegma before the Tahoe Supertopo was printed. Routes such as the Price-Smith route at Phantom Spires. The new route aborts Price-Smith then deletes the upper part of T-bone and Jugs Revisited. Chris was informed that these routes previously existed and still printed the atrocities, which are akin to Carrot Top's plastic surgery done to stone. These once proud routes abolished because some can't sack-up.
I say we get the pitchfork and torches. I'll boil the tar you bring the feathers. Let's roll up our sleeves and get to work.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Mar 28, 2012 - 02:07am PT
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YO!
Chalky fingers is back!
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 28, 2012 - 11:40am PT
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here is a shout out to
paul crawford and his
artful piece,
pro-ed on lead telesis.
a good expression of
his mental and physical prowess.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 28, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
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because this internet world
is so removed from real,
i gotta say these,
i don't get the battery packing, retro, cross-over drilling jobs going on.
i am not a new router; i've never placed a bolt; and i rarely climb bolted routes (i.e. i'm horrible at them).
my opinion which is like a flea-sneeze in the universe,
is that belittling other peoples work / efforts by adding bolts is wrong.
aiden is a super bold, hard-working and very tallented climber.
he could do these routes in their original condition. i don't understand.
the grey areas abound in each party's interpretation of what ground is already climbed and what ground is virgin. and internet discussions regarding these gray areas are sure to be frought with mis-communications.
basically aiden is a friend and a kick asse climber that i respect,
though i do not understand nor condone his actions if indeed the accusations made here
are true.
i uphold my own ethics and standards,
i cannot force others to.
i wont go remove aiden's bolts,
because im not at all certain that what he's been accused of is accurate.
nor am i qualified in that i could not stand in the shoes that i profess others should.
i will remove the random bullshit convenient anchor bolts popping up all over the crag.
i will remove bolts placed next to cracks.
for these are clearly an act of attrition upon the mount, and the right / wrong of this situation is better defined in my heart.
aiden doesn't need my praise,
he's an apt fella, stouter than most.
but hell if i go sliding bare assed down
the granite slab with sparks issuing of
the friction on my brass bolls,
shouting all along that god believes in me.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 28, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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hayboose,
no sir im allota talk,
i do act though my suffocating
life style doesn't afford my
feet the ample time they need
to keep up with my mouth.
next rainy day i've off,
i'll complete the act.
i already bought the epoxy.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 28, 2012 - 01:57pm PT
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When I went to Sugerloaf for the first time, I was aghast to see a "convenience" rap station replete with chain approx. 25 feet off the ground (no route apparent under it).
WTF is up with that, and who dunnit?
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