Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
"The killing appears to be related to an early morning shooting in Skyway..."
Wow!
Skyway's the really nice part of Seattle, isn't it. I think that's where Bill Gates has a place.
No guns, drugs, whores, etc in Skyway.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
|
|
Ted Bundy, Jeff Dahmer, Chuck Manson, Lee Harvey Oswald
All these guys were products of nature, fated to their acts.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
Compassionate Canadians and pinkos aside.... it ain't like there is a shortage of kooks running around, military or otherwise. Thin the herd. In situations like this, I ask myself, "what would Bluering do?"
Like any rabid animal, it must be taken down using any means. Unfortunately, people like this are incurable...drop him.
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
Marlow
You are so right. You can never predict from outward appearances and some indefinite set of variables called "good character" how anyone will respond to severe trauma. One upstanding citizen gets divorced or loses a close relative and six-months later he's on skid row living in a box. Another person undergoes a similar loss or dislocation and goes on and gets his life together. Just can't predict what they'll do from looking on the outside.
But it is true that after approximately five episodes of heavy front-line combat, an infantry squad is "used up". At first they will leave their fox holes and attack when ordered. After three times in heavy combat, after seeing buddies get killed, only half of them will leave their fox holes and attack when ordered. After five times in combat, they will stay quivering and shaking in their fox holes no matter what their NCO orders them to do. "Used up" - send them back for R&R. Time for replacements!
Of course the German and Russian armies in WWII side-stepped this problem: If you had PTSD and wouldn't fight, they simply shot you. "Not one step backwards," says Comrade Stalin! Another tried and true solution to this problem involves turning your "messes" loose on the civilian population - raping, stealing and burning - as a handy way of releasing pent up 'combat fatigue'. Wonder if anyone has done any long-term studies about how soldiers who have committed atrocities against civilians do when they "re-enter" society and try to "main stream"?
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
"Like any rabid animal, it must be taken down using any means. Unfortunately, people like this are incurable...drop him."
OK, I understand this sentiment, and when some pscyho does this kinda shite, I'm pretty much down with it.
Problem is, this only treats a symptom of the larger issue, and doesn't really address the source. This guy undoubtedly had some level of PTSD going on for him...and we are undoubtedly going to see more vets with this kind of stuff...probably even more so.
So do we, as a society, just deal with the impacts as they happen (i.e. 'drop' the next shooter), or do we make some kind of pro-active effort towards our vets psyches?
It's not an either/or solution, though many on each side tends to want to think of it that way, and/or regard those on the 'other' side as solely thinking that way.
|
|
Leggs
Sport climber
Home Sweet Home, Tucson AZ
|
|
My condolences to the family of Ranger Anderson. What a terrible tragedy. This is just horrible. Horrible.
In regards to the "turn" this thread took regarding PTSD:
On Nov. 10, 2011, I was the victim of a road rage shooting in midtown Tucson, at 1pm in the afternoon. (I had the NERVE to merge, passively, and slowly, in front of the car). Though many witnesses and myself called 911, providing lic plate #, description etc., the shooter was not caught or arrested.
On Nov. 13th, as Jefe I were driving to Target for cat food, I saw the shooters car. We followed the car, and when the shooter got out, I called 911. (several times, as they were incredibly slow to respond, and I was fearful the shooter would get away, again.) When an officer finally arrived, they had me moved to the back of the building, for my own safety.
After identifying the gun, the driver (the shooter was the passenger on Nov. 10th), they presented a man for me to identify, who was NOT the shooter. I confirmed the man presented to me (all of this identification occurred while protected in the back of a police car, hidden from view) was NOT the shooter, and was returned to the back of the building, again for my own safety.
After making my statements to a detective (4-5 hours later), it was revealed to me the shooter confessed shooting at me on Nov. 10th. HOWEVER, he stated that I had shot at him FIRST (I've never handled a gun in my life), and claimed that my shooting at him triggered his PTSD, "causing" him to shoot at me. He too is an Iraq war vet, and not far from my own age.
The irony, for me, is that I have PTSD, which I manage in a healthy way. HE triggered MY PTSD on Nov. 10th, and for 2 straight weeks, I could not eat or sleep. It took a tremendous amt of courage to follow that car into the Target parking lot, track him, and have him arrested. I think I did what most victims would do... seek "justice". I am forever grateful I was not alone that day. Jefe was shaken as well, and remained strong for me while I shook like a leaf.
My shooter is looking at spending 4 1/2 years in prison. As a victim, I receive all reports on the movement of this case, and was relieved to hear the shooter would be receiving evaluation and help from the VA. It's dreadful to think he'd not received the help and therapy he needed, prior to him shooting at me, however, I am hopeful the therapy he receives NOW, will improve his life and balance in positive ways, esp in this cruel world, which he only ended up adding to. I am also hopeful that he gets handed SOME kind of prison sentence, as he not only put my life at risk, but the lives of other innocent citizens of Tucson, also driving along Speedway Blvd that day.
PTSD can not be used as an excuse for those individuals who commit crimes against others.
Again, my thoughts and prayers to the family of Ranger Margaret Anderson, for this unnecessary tragedy has just left a huge hole in the lives of those who loved and cherish her.
~peace ~Leggs
|
|
lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
|
|
Tami,
Nothing can be worse and will continue to get worse in the months, years to come. DoD [Department of Defense] which up to a couple of years ago provided health for these guys with PTSD or any other injury. Funding then and now will continue to be cut is the issue. DoD cut their health programs so they could better use their funding for other programs and transferred it to the VA.
So now they are out of the service if you were wounded they will be sent to the VA, even if they were lucky not to sustain an injury can get help through the VA free for five years from their departure. The time for them to see their first doctor will be less than 30 days, drugs are prescribed $100.00 a pill three times a day [$300.00 and that is just for one prescription + two - three more meds] for some just to mellow them out and by the time they figure out to start helping is 9 months. 9 months to get help, I have heard some guys been two years before they finally get help.
“SEALS” or those in special operations that did their duty, then released with honour come home and the ones that are married before they left for their tour are divorced within 3-4 months. Why? The guy is at the kitchen sink and washing the dishes and asks himself ‘why I am doing dishes? Kind of boring when you think about it; when you went through more exciting times. There is no rush.
Problem with this guy, details will follow I am sure if help was followed through or not. But as I read the article and still have to wait to see if it is correct he said he wanted “to die” but why take others with you? Could it be a statement or just fu$ked like a lot of them coming home with PTSD. Then again maybe he did not. There are gang bangers getting into the service and get out and get to play with the cartels. Understand they get good $$$$. So get out work for the cartels or go back overseas and $$$$ for bodyguard/merc work.
Or maybe it was one of a thousand reserve guys that were told that they were going to be deployed in 8 months so get your act together: get ready to move your kids, sell/rent or board up your houses, sell/store or do something with your cars, tell your boss I will not be working here for a while: then they showed up at their duty station and were told “Oh! We don’t need you go back home. Military/Pentagon had a big problem with that one so they tried to find jobs and fit these homeless, out of work with kids somewhere in the system.
Sad yes and will be more of them or less. Up to Congress and understand they know they have a problem with this plus where is the monies to get these guys help. Republicans have a record of NO,NO,NO let's see if it is brought up in discussions or debates?
Plus I am sure Congress regrets the decision of fire arms in NP now. But being in this current political climate I doubt it.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
It seems unlikely that the law on firearms in national parks, whatever it may or should be, would have made the slightest difference in this case. The murderer would have taken his weapons with him regardless of the law.
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
wow Leggs, that is quite a crazy story. Glad you are ok. Really sad that two humans lost their life. Would be a lot better if that ranger was still alive, and army vet was getting some kind of treatment for PTSD.
While working as a security guard through school I met a vet who was not able to go anywhere without his gun due to some kind of post war disorder. Although I could understand how he feels, to me it is a bit crazy that someone who is post war and could have real issues, always has a gun present. Although there are plenty of gang members that have guns....
|
|
Leggs
Sport climber
Home Sweet Home, Tucson AZ
|
|
Really sad that two humans lost their life. Would be a lot better if that ranger was still alive, and army vet was getting some kind of treatment for PTSD.
True.
~peace, Leggs
|
|
Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
|
|
Yeah, that whole psycho-pharma-industrial-complex is bad turn for humanity.
In a few decades we'll look back on this time with horror. Bleeding the bad humors out of people, a standard practice 200 years ago, was the same sort of hooey.
Many shooters today have a butt load of meds.
Suicide & violence a side effect.
|
|
Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
|
|
I have two friends with PTSS, Marine/Nam veterans both, and both have been treated well by the Veteran's Administration.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
Holy moley, Leggs!
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
Wow, Leggs.
Glad that you're OK, and stoked that you had the courage to do what you did.
|
|
reddirt
climber
PNW
|
|
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Report-Rainier-ranger-s-killer-found-dead-2436892.php
"At Mount Rainier around 10:20 a.m. Sunday, the gunman had sped past a checkpoint to make sure vehicles have tire chains, which are sometimes necessary in snowy conditions, Bacher said. One ranger began following him while Anderson eventually blocked the road to stop the driver.
Before fleeing, the gunman fired shots at both Anderson and the ranger that trailed him, but only Anderson was hit. Anderson was armed and wearing body armor."
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Body armor is not going to defeat a rifle round and often makes it worse.
There is a trade-off.
Sounds like another home grown tragedy.
This is just part of the hidden cost in the US assuming a role it is no longer suited for nor can it afford, the world's policeman.
|
|
bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
|
|
Condolences to the deceased's family and friends.
Can't help but feel this is part of the legacy of BushCo.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
"Can't help but feel this is part of the legacy of BushCo."
What if she voted for Bush? Would that mean this was a suicide?
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
This is just part of the hidden cost in the US assuming..... that nearly anyone can have an arsenal.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!