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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Dec 20, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
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How about a greenhouse on top where they can grow marijuana?
Those naked kids aren't going to college on a climbing scholarship and everybody knows how much those southern Cali's love the pot.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
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For lack of any better ideas here are my .....
Answers-
Lynnie, yes that is Todd's hogan in Lukachukai, AZ where he lived for 2? (circa 1980?)years. We climbed Tse'n'tyl (a bigwall FA with Brian Povolney) and also climbed the Titan that week as well as some reservation cragging. It was cold.
Chris Mac asks where to send donations
Send to:
TG Donations c/o David Evans
1931 Rolling Stone Ln.
Tustin,
CA 92780
Cash donations?
use my Paypal account. I have a zero balance right now and rarely use Paypal, only when I am selling stuff. All you need is my e-mail address.
devansbike@earthlink.net
If you don't like Paypal send me a check or cash to the above address.It is free and easy to sign up.
I am 100% trustworthy and will keep track of all cash and material donations. Anyone who desires to audit it at the end will be welcomed to do so. The material donations will be listed on this thread for any interested purchaser to peruse. Anything not sold ahead of time will be brought to the event and if still unsold will be offered on Supertopo/Mtn. Project/Craigs List etc. afterwards. My goal will be to move stuff so prices should be good however competitive bidding will be encouraged.
As far as coordinating the roof deal, we need a builder to step up and handle it. It looks like free labor will be abundant.
I am not qualified to make decisions about the roof but would be happy to help the qualified person to do so. I can swing a hammer as well.
Possible qualified folks:
Scole
Bill Mckirgan
goatboy smellz
Rich Sims
Greg Epperson
Kevin Daniels
Guest List.
1. DEE
2. Todd Gordon
3. Jeremy
4. Dr. F
5. TYeary
6. Bullwinkle
7. Locker
8. Stahlbro
9. steelmonkey
10. philo ?
11. Bransdon ?
12. Mtnmon ?
13. Mighty Hiker ?
14. Brokedownclimber
15. Sketchey
16. RussWalling
17. Flouide and Steve
19. RLF
20. Karen
21. Crimpergirl ?
22. Marty(r)
23. Tarbuster
24. TGT
25. F10
26. Lynne Leightfuss
27. SCseagoat
28. Susan
29. Ferretlegger
30. Michael
31. Bill McKirgan
32. goatboy smellz
33. H
34. Steve West
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 20, 2011 - 04:09pm PT
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I'm a contractor so I'm plenty qualified. Just got home from work putting a new roof and roof deck on a house.
I'm still a maybe.
Looks like a case of too many cooks in the kitchen, but I'll second the vote to bitch the whole thing and use 30yr architectural shingles instead of paper and three tabs. Three tabs disentigrate just as quickly from UV as they do from moisture. Actually, probably faster.
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Scole
Trad climber
San Diego
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Dec 20, 2011 - 04:26pm PT
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I think Brandon- has the right idea. If you can't do metal, a solid, water tight underlayment with 30 yr shingles is probably your best bet.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Dec 20, 2011 - 04:36pm PT
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the nasty debris from stripping the old roofing; We'll need several pickups at least, to make several runs each to the dump or wherever they go with the demolition debris from roofing. I have a pickup, and I'll volunteer it's availability for this project. There will probably be several tons of schizzle involved...tar and gravel isn't lightweight stuff!
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Dec 20, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
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^^^^^^
We usually just dump that stuff on random dirt roads in the area.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Dec 20, 2011 - 04:40pm PT
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O.K.--do we have any Bail Bondsmen present? :D
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 20, 2011 - 04:41pm PT
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Additionally, you should factor in the cost of new trim if needed, stain for trim, drip edge, cedar shakes for standoff, starter course, flashing, caulking, ridge vent, fasteners and ridge cap. Then add in a little for any nessecary framing materials to replace punky lumber and/or sheathing.
If needed, I can draw up a materials list and get numbers from local suppliers, just need the dimensions and pitch.
Edit; I should add that with the wealth of knowledge that will be present, other carpentry projects could and should be addressed. Roofing becomes a huge cluster with too many people.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Dec 20, 2011 - 04:46pm PT
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All that's missing is some Mexicans, a few cases of Negra Modelo should help us gringos get in the groove.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 20, 2011 - 08:25pm PT
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I may be down for this. Sounds like a good time, for a good cause, with good people.
Trifecta!!1!!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Dec 20, 2011 - 08:31pm PT
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Calling Ron Gomez, calling Ron Gomez ..... shout out to Robert Fonda. Think we can deal with this.....may need Tucker Too Tech. Check out Goatboy smellz post. Cheers from the littlest gringo.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Dec 20, 2011 - 09:18pm PT
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Odale! Someone call fer some Mesicans?? Yep I'm going to be there for the Partay and the construction. Fonda can stand up for my labor efforts and I'll bring Bridwell AND Yerian to help me out. If ya want I can bring a work crew from the bario, won't need no gringos and we can wipe it out a couple hours! Dave can you put me up high on the invite list cause I've been there fer all the fundraisers to get the ball rollin' and get the booze flowin'! If we got 1 buck from everyone that ever stayed or partied there....we could build em a new house! Buck up guys, let's give to the one who's given the most!
Peace
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Dec 20, 2011 - 10:13pm PT
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I got a 3/4-ton pickup I can bring as long as everyone's nice to any paint outside of the bed. And I know my way to the dump now!
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Dec 21, 2011 - 01:42am PT
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Hey Dave,
Count me in on the construction too. I have been an off and on re-modeler for 30 years. Once a material list gets made, stuff can start materializing from our community. I have a couple roles of 6 or 8 inch bitchathan I can donate, plus a load of nails and screws.
I am coming from the bay area so my truck is staying here. But I can bring my belt and hand tools for sure. I really think there will be enough people around to do other projects. If anyone has a trailer too, that would be your best bet for hauling to the dump and getting supplies.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Dec 21, 2011 - 07:25am PT
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I'll bring the Tortilla's and rice for Ron...
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Dec 21, 2011 - 11:02am PT
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Tortillas and rice for Ron? I'll be bringing the Bohemia and limes!
Count me in for use of the pickup to haul debris to the local dump, some booze, and my big propane camp stove. I'll throw down some cash as well.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2011 - 04:16pm PT
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Guest List.
1. DEE
2. Todd Gordon
3. Jeremy
4. Dr. F
5. TYeary
6. Bullwinkle
7. Locker
8. Stahlbro
9. steelmonkey
10. philo ?
11. Bransdon ?
12. Mtnmon ?
13. Mighty Hiker ?
14. Brokedownclimber
15. Sketchy
16. RussWalling
17. Flouide and Steve
19. RLF
20. Karen
21. Crimpergirl ?
22. Marty(r)
23. Tarbuster
24. TGT
25. F10
26. Lynne Leightfuss
27. SCseagoat
28. Susan
29. Ferretlegger
30. Michael
31. Bill McKirgan
32. goatboy smellz
33. H
34. Paul Parker
35. Ron Gomez
36. Jim Bridwell
37. Dave Yerian
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 21, 2011 - 05:20pm PT
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Dave, my intention is to either be there in person, or by contributing in other ways, or both. I won't know until the spring.
Given the distances, possibly I can contribute more by not being there in person - although perhaps I'll combine it with a climbing trip or such.
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Murf
climber
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Dec 21, 2011 - 05:45pm PT
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You know I'll be there Dave, and Sketchy too I would imagine.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 21, 2011 - 07:58pm PT
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LEGAL DISCLAIMER & WARNING!!
ALL PERSONS REFERRING TO, TALKING ABOUT, OR MERELY THINKING ABOUT THE GORDON RANCH RAISING THE ROOF PROJECT MUST READ THIS!!!
Plans for the Raising the Gordons' Roof project are based on dim recollections, half-baked guesses, gossip, blind speculation, and outright lies. Plus incompetent and drunken surveys, conducted by people who wouldn't know a hammer if it smacked them upside the head. In NO WAY do they tell the full story. You would probably be better off just trying to find your own way up the roof, and banging some nails, than you would be if you used this plan. But that statement in no way implies that we are in any way responsible if you don't use this plan, and something bad happens anyway.
Roofs are unpredictable and unsafe. Roofs are dangerous. Many books have been written about these dangers, not to mention youtube posts and America's funniest home videos, and there's no way we can even list them all here, let alone discuss how to reduce risk from these dangers. Read the books and watch the videos.
The roof to be repaired is covered in steep terrain with loose, slippery and unstable footing. The weather can make matters worse. Sheer drops are everywhere. You may fall, be injured or die. There are hidden holes, with punji sticks placed by the Gordon Triplets below - cute rascals, aren't they? You could break your leg. There are overhanging outcroppings and tree branches where you could bump your head. There are wild animals, which may be vicious, poisonous, hungry or carriers of dread diseases. These may include venomous amphibians, reptiles, and insects; insects to which you have allergies, or whose multiple stings can cause anaphylactic shock; mammals which may include badgers, marmots, coyotes, and cougars; predatory birds; rodents carrying bubonic plague and hantavirus; sushi that has gone bad; and all other manner of beasts. Plants can be poisonous as well, and even when not poisonous, can inflict serious injury like a sharp stick in the eye. You'll be glad to hear that mushrooms aren't among the risks, though. This plan, and the authors of this plan, will not do anything to protect you from any of this. We do not inspect, supervise or maintain the ground, rocks, cliffs, wildlife, vegetation or other features, natural or otherwise.
Don't forget that the plan is being formed by a COMMITTEE. Of CLIMBERS. Adolescent males, of all ages and sexes. Who, in the words of the immortal Don Whillans, probably couldn't organize a f*#k in a brothel.
Stay on the roof whenever possible. The terrain, in addition to being dangerous, is surprisingly complex. You may get lost. You probably WILL get lost. Given the planners, there are probably hopes that you will get lost, and you will fall off the roof - some politard conspiracy, to exterminate progressive climbers. The chances of getting lost multiply geometrically after the sun goes down, due to poor visibility. The sun goes down at least once a day in these areas, although not all climbers agree. Not to say that you won't get lost during daylight hours. In any event, carry a flashlight, extra bulb and batteries, compass, GPS, maps, altimeter, cellular phone, food, water, flares, beer, matches and first aid supplies at all times. Our advising you of this does not mean there are not other things you should be carrying. Carry them as well, and know how to use them. We are not responsible for the consequences if you fail to heed this advice. In fact, we are not responsible for the consequences even if you DO heed this advice, nor are we responsible if you carry so much stuff along that you end up moving so slowly that you get benighted. Tough luck.
It is untrue that CMac will be present, and give a presentation on speed nailing.
Rocks and other objects can, and probably will, fall from the roof. This can happen naturally, or be caused by people above you, such as roofers and small children. (There are at least four such children at the Gordon Ranch, not including climbers and visitors.) Things of all sizes, including tiles and joists, can shift, move or fall with no warning. If you don't believe us check out the talus slopes at the base of some of the rock walls, such as those built by Tucker. They didn't just grow there. Use of helmets is advised for anyone approaching the roof. In fact, you shouldn't really be approaching the roof anyway. That is a really stupid thing to do. If you do decide to approach the roof, shoulder pads, knee pads, elbow pads, parachutes, athletic cups and supporters and other body armor may be handy as well as helmets. These items can be purchased or rented from mountaineering shops and athletic supply stores. (Check with Hilde.) They won't save you if you get hit by or scrape against something big, or fall off the roof. A whole rock formation might collapse on you and squash you like a bug. Don't think it can't happen. It does, and it probably will.
Weather can be dangerous, regardless of the forecast. Be prepared with extra clothing, including rain gear and flowery sunhats. Hypothermia, heat stroke, dehydration, frostbite, lightning, ice and snow, runoff from rainstorms, flashfloods, hurricanes, etc can kill you. Rain can turn a flat roof into a deathtrap (the killer puddles!), can drown you if you're looking up into the sky with your mouth open, and vastly decreases traction on roofs. Snow is even worse, the hazards ranging from snowball fight injuries to avalanches.
If you climb on the roof without proper experience, training and equipment, or allow Todd to do so, you are making a terrible mistake. Even if you know what you're doing and are the most experienced and safest climber the world has ever known, you are still making a terrible mistake: lots of things can and do go wrong and you may be injured or die. It happens all the time.
The roof is not provided with any rangers or security personnel on any regular basis. Indeed, half the people present have juvenile issues with authority figures of all types. The other people in the area, including other visitors, NPS employees, foreign agents, Canuckleheads, biologists and nature freaks, terrorists and anyone else who might sneak in, may be stupid, reckless, or dangerous. They may be mentally ill, criminally insane, drunk, using illegal drugs and/or armed with anything from nail clippers to deadly weapons and ready to use them. In the case of climbers, probably all of the above. Some say they've worked for YOSAR, JTSAR, or for all we know the Death Star. Ha! We're not going to do anything about that. We refuse to take responsibility.
Excessive consumption of alcohol, use of prescription drugs, over-the-counter medications, and/or controlled substances while frequenting the roof can and probably will affect your mental state, alertness, and decision-making abilities, and could make an already dangerous situation even worse. Even hyperventilation or spinning around rapidly and repeatedly can affect your equilibrium to the point that even on a flat paved surface you may fall and injure yourself. Even abstinence from consciousness-altering substances and actions won't protect you from the actions of others under the influence of such substances or actions. That's your problem, and yours alone. Not our fault.
The driveways, freeways, highways, streets, alleys, back roads and unimproved 4WD tracks leading to the roof kill hundreds of folks each year. Especially those from St. George, Utah and Los Angeles. Many of these fatalities are folks who aren't even on their way to the roof, who in fact have never heard of it, but are simply innocent victims. Not so you. You have been warned. You could get killed driving to the roof. Wearing your seatbelt tightly fastened with the lap belt low across your waist improves your chances of survival, in most cases but does not and cannot guarantee your safety. You might die before ever stepping out of your vehicle at the roof, or on the way home. It can happen any time. If you think you are immune from this kind of thing, you're fooling yourself.
And let's not forget that casa jstan is nearby, and jstan has an energetic habitat of excavating asphalt. Guess where from?
These are not sterile environments. Bacteria, viruses, protozoa, protoviruses, fungi, unwashed climbers, small children and other forms of life and protolife which may or may not be currently included in either the plant or animal kingdom are capable of causing you serious bodily harm, illness, or death. Cooties are also a very real threat. These kinds of biological agents are both endemic in these areas or present in the plant and animal populations; and are also capable of being carried or transmitted by your roofing partners. We're not going to take responsibility for this, either. Our advice for you to treat drinking water, wash your hands before and after going to the bathroom and before eating, to not breathe hqnta-virus-contaminated dust, and to not indulge in unprotected sex in this area, in no way obligates us to be responsible for the consequences if you fail to do so, nor does it mean that even if you DO take these precautions and something happens anyway, that we are to blame. Not so. Forget it. Nada. Negativo.
If you roof, you may die or be seriously injured. And the longer you roof the greater your risk of bad luck, which may or may not be compounded by hubris, catching up to you. This is true whether you are experienced or not, trained or not, and equipped or not, though training, experience and equipment may help. It's a fact, roofing is extremely dangerous. If you don't like it, stay at home. You really shouldn't be doing it anyway. We do not provide supervision or instruction. We are not responsible for, and do not inspect or maintain, equipment, materials, and qualifications. As far as we know, any of them can and probably will suddenly fail without warning and send you plunging to your death with a bloodcurdling scream. There are tons of loose crap ready to be dislodged and fall on you or someone else. There are any number of inobvious, extremely and unusually dangerous conditions existing on and around the roof. We probably don't know about any specific hazard, but even if we do, don't expect this plan or us to try to warn you. You're on your own.
We won't even begin to discuss rappelling. If you are thinking of travelling to the roof for the express purpose of rappelling, let alone batshit crazy wingsuiting, do us all a favour: take a nice nap in the fast lane of I-10. But be advised that, if you do, we are in no way responsible for the consequences of that, either. In no case will jumping from the roof be permitted, whatever the Fish may say about testing maxipads. And no, the wading pool is not the LZ for wingsuiting off the roof.
Furthermore, the fact that we're not trying to stop you from being on the roof in no way implies, nor should it be inferred, that we approve, recommend, advocate, or otherwise in any way affirm that such action on your part is anything but incredibly stupid. Just ask any of your fellow roofers for their carpenter's tickets.
Rescue services are not provided by anyone near the roof, and may not be available quickly or at all. In fact, if anything really serious happens to you, you'll probably be dead before word ever reaches civilization, or casa jstan. Local rescue squads may not be equipped for or trained in mountain rescue, or have, let alone know how to safely use, ladders. They probably won't be. If you are lucky enough to have somebody try to rescue you or treat your injuries, they will probably be incompetent or worse. This includes doctors, hospitals, and the LEB. We assume no responsibility. Also, if you decide to participate in a rescue of some other unfortunate, that's your choice. Don't do it unless you are willing to assume all risks, and don't blame us when it goes bad and you end up getting yourself sued in the process.
By using, or even just looking at this plan, you are agreeing that we owe you no duty of care or any other duty, you agree to release us, our relatives, heirs, dependents, and anyone else we care to name, now and forevermore, from any and all claims of liability, even though our actions may be grossly negligent and/or be construed as reckless endangerment, manslaughter, or other misconduct up to and including premeditated murder. (Just ask Robert what really happens up at the ranch, nawmean?) By consulting this plan, you agree to waive forever any rights that you, your partners, dependents, heirs, in-laws, and others known or unknown to you may have, to legal compensation resulting from anything that has anything to do with this plan, including but in no way limited to paper cuts. If you try to sue us in spite of all this, you agree to pay our lawyer's fees regardless of the outcome of the suit, and you expressly agree to reimburse us for any loss or injury, be it financial, physical, emotional, or imagined, which we may experience as a result of such lawsuit.
We promise you nothing. We do not and will not even try to keep the roof safe for any purpose. The roof is NOT safe for any purpose. (Ask yourself why anyone would want a whole bunch of climbers on a roof at the same time? Hmmmm?) This is no joke. We won't even try to warn you about any dangerous or hazardous condition, whether we know about it or not. If we do decide to warn you about something, that doesn't mean we will try to warn you about anything else. If we do make an effort to fix an unsafe condition, we may not try to correct any others, and we may actually make matters worse! Sorry, we're neither competent nor responsible. The plan gives you bad advice. Don't listen. Or do listen. It's your choice, but you face the consequences either way, whatever they may be.
In short, ROOF AT YOUR OWN RISK. If you, or your heirs, relatives, dependents or others known or unknown to you; your partner or your partner's heirs, relatives, dependents, or others known or unknown to you OR your partner, are the slimy kind of lawyer-touting parasites who would try to sue the author of a plan, If you can't take responsibility for your own decisions, knowledge, routefinding and plain dumb bad luck, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stay far far away from the roof, give up roofing, and die of some completely natural, painful, and slowly progressive disease. And FOAD while you're at it.
(With apologies to the late, great Brutus of Wyde.)
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