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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 24, 2011 - 12:02pm PT
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From the survey;
There were cases with some other news sources as well. Daily consumers of MSNBC and public broadcasting (NPR and PBS) were higher (34 points and 25 points respectively) in believing that it was proven that the US Chamber of Commerce was spending money raised from foreign sources to support Republican candidates. Daily watchers of network TV news broadcasts were 12 points higher in believing that TARP was signed into law by President Obama, and 11 points higher in believing that most Republicans oppose TARP.
It still seems like a bizarre survey.
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Nov 24, 2011 - 12:20pm PT
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http://www.examiner.com/obama-administration-in-new-york/new-york-times-poll-reveals-tea-party-ignorance-dishonesty-and-hypocrisy
New York Times poll reveals Tea Party ignorance, dishonesty and hypocrisy
Marc Rubin, NY Obama Administration Examiner
There were new myth making headlines out of a New York Times poll that supposedly showed that tea party supporters are "better educated and wealthier" than the general population. The supposed findings were used by some journalists and tea party organizers to build up the credentials of the tea party.
But when you look at the actual poll data that the NY Times used for its story, it's clear neither the Times editors nor the reporters who wrote the story could analyze their way out of a paper bag. The claims are preposterous and further re-enforces the credentials of the newspaper that brought us Whitewater and Judith Miller's bogus front page stories on the absolute certainty of WMD in Iraq in the run up to the war.
Many in the news media and on the cable news talk shows just took the preposterous conclusions by a bunch of inept Times reporters at face value without looking at the actual results (which are available here) which paints a very different picture. In fact, supposedly according to Michelle Bachman and some silly reporting, Tea Party supporters are even "hotter" than liberals.
But the data shows that compared to the general population almost twice the number of Tea Party supporters are retired, 32% to 18%. And another interesting poll number which calls the entire validity of the Times poll and the veracity of the those polled into question, is that according to their poll data only 16% of the tea party respondents say they are on Medicare.
Since everyone becomes eligible for Medicare at 65 its hard to believe that 50% of retirees who claim to be Tea Party supporters do not have Medicare. It indicates a number of things: a willingness to lie or be deceptive on the part of the respondents, probab;y because Medicare is a government run healthcare program and indicates a lack of analytical ability on the part of the Times pollsters, reporters who wrote the story and their editors..
With this answer and the answer to other questions, there is every indication that a good number of Tea Party supporters are willing to lie to pollsters to support their agenda, which, based on based on past performance shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone with the obvious exception of the New York Times.
On religion 83% are catholic or protestant with 1% saying they are Jewish and 6-9% saying "other". With only 1% of those polled saying they are Jewish its not likely that many of the respondents in the New York Times poll are from New York, or much of the northeast or Florida, a state where an anti-healthcare Tea Party Republican was just crushed in a special election for a seat in the House of Representatives. Given the lack of polling in the northeast, the claim that Tea Party supporters are "better educated" is also suspect and further examination of the poll data supports that also not to mention what we've seen of the protestors.
Of these supposedly higher educated Tea Partiers, 1% checked the answer " I dont know", when asked the question of whether they are married, had ever been married are divorced or separated, Of the supposedly less educated general public, 0% checked "I don't know" to that question. This might begin to explain the popularity of Michelle Bachman and Fox News.
One wonders if Tea Partiers have their names and addresses sewn into their clothing when they go on protests.
To the question of ideology, 73% of Tea Party supporters describe themselves as "conservative to very conservative" . This blows another hole in the veracity of the NY Times poll and/or the truthfulness of their Tea Party respondents since every poll, every measurable educational statistic has shown that those with liberal ideologies tend to be better educated while people who describe themselves as conservative less educated in the general population.
It's not likely that has changed as far as the Tea Party movement is concerned and there is more raw data in the New York times poll to back that up.
So what it also suggests is that, like the Medicare question, Tea Partiers are likely to be less than truthful when it comes to answering certain questions.In the answer to questions about their education, "some college" drew the highest percentage. Which means what? They dropped out? Couldn't handle it? Or was that the easiest to lie about? There is more polling data to call into question the "better educated" claim as well.
As for the Times conclusion that they are "wealthier", these are the actual numbers:
25% say they make between $50,000 and $75,000 a year compared to 18% of the general population and 12% between $75k-and 100k compared to 11% of the general population.
Assuming the Tea Partiers are telling the truth which has been shown can be highly doubtful, the disparity in the $75-100,000 category is so small as to be irrelevant. And with regards to the use of the term "wealthier"( the word used by the Times), it's doubtful that anyone in the country making $50-$75,000 or $75 -$100,000 a year thinks they are wealthy.
According to the poll there is a slightly higher number than the public as a whole claiming to make over $250,000 but that number is such a small percentage of the Tea Party supporters and general population as a whole that the conclusion that Tea Party supporters are "wealthier" is beyond silly and far from the truth.
But to get back to the "better educated" claim, maybe the biggest nail in the coffin of the New York Times article, is their poll data that shows 63% of these supposedly " better educated" Tea Party supporters say their primary source of information is Fox News. It is beyond the realm of possibility that highly educated people would use Fox News as their primary source of information.
This is the same Fox News where Sean Hannity said the healthcare bill if passed, could turn U.S. doctors into terrorists because it would cut their salaries and they'd be susceptible to taking money from Al-Qaeda to commit terrorist acts. There is no supermarket tabloid in America that wouldnt be embarrassed to publish such a story. This is also the same Fox News where Glenn Beck conducting his Ding Dong School fact-denying show, told people that under the new healthcare bill they will "go to jail", ( written on his blackboard) if they don't get health insurance.
Fox News is not news for highly educated people. And what's more Fox News itself knows it.
More data proving the absurdity of Tea Party supporters being better educated are the poll numbers that show 57% have a favorable view of George W Bush, the most inept, disastrous president in U.S. history. Bush visited more catastrophies on the United States because of his incompetence and negligence than U.S president in history, from getting 3000 people killed on 911 because he dismissed terrorism as a threat until it was too late, to destroying the balanced budget, exploding the deficit, creating the worst economic disaster since the depression, and the debacle in Iraq, not to mention those who died because of his handling of Katrina.
Yes this is the president that supposedly "better educarted" Tea Party supporters give a 57% job approval rating, which says as much about who Tea Party supporters really are as it says about the New York Time ability to analyze.
It reveals the Tea Party supporters as totally partisan, somewhat fascistic and completely hypocritical since every problem they complain about was caused by Bush and the Republicans who proved to be incompetent beyond anything anyone would have thought possible.
It also explains why Tea Party supporters didn't demonstrate when Bush destroyed the balanced budget, blew a $ 5 1/2 trillion budget surplus, cut tax rates for upper 5% of the country, exploded the deficit, sent the country into an unnecessary $1 billion a day war without paying for it, caused the worst economic crisis since the Depression, and are now "angry" with Democrats over the economy. Tea Party supporters are either mindlessly partisan or they were in a six year coma for 2001-2006.
What the Times poll really reveals is that a large segment ( no one can say "all") of the Tea Party movement is what it appears to be every day on television: ignorant,dishonest, uneducated, neo fascistic, filled with moral and intellectual hypocrites (as the foul mouthed family values conservatives who made obscene calls to Bart Stupak and others proved) with no real values except a deep desire to have everyone act they way they do and believe as they do to justify themselves and their conformity.
And there is, though a minority, a definite and distinct element of raw racism motivating many as was evident not just by some clearly racist signs aimed at Obama over healthcare. but even by the Governor of Virginia who neglected to mention slavery as the cause of the Civil War in a speech honoring those who fought for the confederacy.
As the data and any real analyis shows, the conclusions the Times reporters drew from their polling data are simply preposterous. And what the Tea Party protests have shon is that more than anything, the Tea Party movement is made of a bunch of small minded conservative partians, angry that the massive failure of their ideology led to their representatives being thrown out of power. And if the American people have any sense, it will stay that way despite Republican political operatives who try and exploit their temper tantrums for their own political ends.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 24, 2011 - 02:00pm PT
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So first a few conservatives, instead of addressing the allegations, attacked the apparant source, the Huffington post.
Until the obvious was pointed out, that it was really a university study with academic criteria that came up with the data.
So Skippy, instead of addressing the issues, attacks them as liberals. After all, Obama REALLY WAS BORN IN KENYA RIGHT? Global Warming IS A LIE, Right?!
Meanwhile
2. Global Warming. In a late 2010 survey, Stanford University's Jon Krosnick found that "more exposure to Fox News was associated with more rejection of many mainstream scientists' claims about global warming, with less trust in scientists, and with more belief that ameliorating global warming would hurt the U.S. economy." Notably, there was a 25 percentage point gap between the most frequent Fox News watchers (60 %) and those who watch no Fox news (85 %) in whether they think global warming is "caused mostly by things people do or about equally by things people do and natural causes."
they are in california after all but guess what, Stanford is NOT a liberal institution.
You can tell the accuracy of the right wing news sources by the credibility of "Facts" that Skip cites about OWS, that they've been burning buildings and are composed of Nazis, commies and terrorists
Not a bad guy but misinformation isn't a function of virtue
peace
Karl
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
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Uhm Skipt the title of the thread is
FoXNews viewers are least informed.
So what's your pinhead point?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 24, 2011 - 02:37pm PT
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I don't get Skips point either but sorta sorry I posted that on thanksgiving.
Peace and Love to Ya'll right or left, right or wrong
Peace
Karl
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2011 - 02:39pm PT
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Feel free to give us the view from the gimpy crowd....
Skip
I have.
Are you attempting to denigrate me for physical disabilities?
Let me tell you something about the "gimpy crowd" so your derogatory condescension can get rammed up back up your anus along with the Koch brother's prides.
Craig DeMartino, is an amputee (a gimp) who climbed the NOSE IN A DAY swapping leads.
What's your excuse Koch sucker.
I have climbed 5.12, WI5, M8 and old school A5 even with a degenerating prosthetic.
Tell us what have you done? Or do you just amuse yourself by taking potshots at handicapped and cripples?
Pray you never spend time with a disability, even a temporary one. You may have to reexamine your inane reality when your Karma runs over your Dogma.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 24, 2011 - 02:44pm PT
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Not a bad guy but misinformation isn't a function of virtue
You should know, Karl!
Almost all the commie crap you spew is historically challenged. Is that a function of virtue?
And how are we defining 'virtue'? At the heels of the rich? To create your virtuous 'great society' where everybody does routes without spewing crap about whether it was good form or not?
Or is it the one where everybody gets free stuff and sings kumbaya eveynight around the campfire?
Or the one with free higher education whether you're worthy or not?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2011 - 02:58pm PT
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Or the one where DippitySkipt and Blew the Dog get to don Brownshirts and throw cripples out of wheelchairs then tase and gas them for being a public nuisance.
Tea anyone.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 24, 2011 - 02:58pm PT
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I don't get you guys. You worry about a safety net for the poor who otherwise might resort to voting or robbing your ass to survive, but never begrudge trillions for war against countries that pose little danger.
Or megabillions in corporate welfare
Whatever, I'm just pointing out your lack of mental discipline in criticizing this study. You've shown no flaw, just criticized the post and the university.
Let's get this straight. You accept no facts except from sources you like and the source you like is Fox News which is documented to play loose with the facts.
Opinions are one thing, but somehow Fox News manages to imply things without basis in reality.
Don't you guys understand how to debate things based on evidence? Now I'm questioning you and you can only attack me instead of facing the music
Peace
Karl
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2011 - 03:01pm PT
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Asked again...
Are you attempting to denigrate me for physical disabilities?
Then there is Pete "lefty" Davis Who leads 5.11 trad with one arm.
Pete is a great human being who was a thalidomide baby.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 24, 2011 - 03:04pm PT
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Karl, I love ya because you're the only honest neo-commie I know. That and buddies whom you've guided say good things about yer skillz.
But...
We just disagree, man. I do agree about spending cuts. Maybe we should cut Medicare/Medicaid? Or is only the military on yor table?
How about bringing back Glass/Stiegal that Clinton chopped?
How about REALLY enforcing existing SEC regulations? WTF is up with Corzine and MF Global???
How about bringing this country back to a country of RULES that are actually enforced???
I think we can agree on that!~
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
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No Skip only YOU are saying that.
Hey, Fetus Eater, what's your point about GIMPS?
Hey Repubs do you remember Thalidomide? That was a grand example of your right wing do gooder's imposing chemical warfare on their own citizens in the guise of "health care".
Just like your "Get Big Gov off thee people's backs" Bush admin who made a circus out of repeatedly ramming a feeding tube up Terry Schivo.
Liars, Thieves, Fear-mongers and hypocrites all.
philo prancing gimp I am the 99%
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 24, 2011 - 03:13pm PT
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Thanks Karl! LOLZ! I have nothing to add to that well spoken post:-)
I don't get you guys. You worry about a safety net for the poor who otherwise might resort to voting or robbing your ass to survive, but never begrudge trillions for war against countries that pose little danger.
Or megabillions in corporate welfare
Whatever, I'm just pointing out your lack of mental discipline in criticizing this study. You've shown no flaw, just criticized the post and the university.
Let's get this straight. You accept no facts except from sources you like and the source you like is Fox News which is documented to play loose with the facts.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2011 - 03:13pm PT
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Go and tell someone who gives a sh#t. You should have thought about your issues before you lash out over and over to others.
Please explain the relevance you perceive here. You brought up Gimpy in a derogatory intent. You brought up Fabulous in a derogatory intent. The list of your monkey poo flinging is endless.
What does being a gimp or a dancer have to do with?
And no skip you won't back off you are not capable of it. You are a cornered shrew. Act big.
So again I ask you what is your point about GIMPS? I am sure Mal would also like to know.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 24, 2011 - 03:18pm PT
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Most of you kind liberals are the most hateful, vitriolic people around here.
This is why I dig Karl. He is wiser than the rest of you. Maybe you can take a page from his book.
Karl and I totally disagree on almost everything, but I know he's a genuine dude.
I respect that. That's all you can ask from your bros. Be genuine! From there I will cast my judgement upon the quality of your character.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2011 - 03:24pm PT
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From there I will cast my judgement upon the quality of your character.
WOW it seems like you should have a big white flowing beard and gowns with terrible crashing thunderous skies wreathed all around you in your mighty judgmental-ness.
Happy Turkey Day Bluering.
Happy Turkey Day Skipt.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 24, 2011 - 03:43pm PT
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Happy Turkey Day Bluering.
Happy Turkey Day Skipt.
Same to you, dude!
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Nov 24, 2011 - 04:00pm PT
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Bush & Co as an example of a Republican mind:
"A US intelligence report decides that Iran isn't as big a threat as once feared, and Bush decides this proves that, actually guys, I think you'll find it is. You've got to admire his steadfast refusal to acknowledge anything that doesn't complement his monochromatic world view. He's a true tunnel visionary. Awkward facts simply ricochet off him, like peashooter pellets bouncing harmlessly from an elephant's hide. He knows what he wants to believe, and he'll carry on believing it until it kills him.
Or us. Preferably us. He can always recant and say, "Oops, I was wrong" in his bunker. We'll be long gone by then, so what does he care?
Very little, in all probability. Bush is a bit like an unhinged iconoclast who has arbitrarily decided he doesn't believe in cows, and loudly and repeatedly denies their existence until you get so annoyed you drive him to a farm and show him a cow, and he shakes his head and continues to insist there's no such thing. At which point it moos indignantly, but he claims not to hear it, so in exasperation you drag him into the field and force him to touch the cow, and milk the cow, and ride around on the cow's back. And, finally, he dismounts and says, "That was fun'n'all, but dagnammit, I still don't believe in no cow." And then he shoots it in the head regardless, just to be on the safe side. Just so it isn't a threat."
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2011 - 04:09pm PT
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Marvelous Marlow Marvelous
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Nov 24, 2011 - 04:16pm PT
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Just gotta throw in my two cents worth.
Blue and Skippy are prime examples of fox accolytes. They're not just less informed, They are just plain not very smart.
Instead of making a reasoned argument about something thay always go for a persoanl attack that has nothing to do with the question at hand. And that attack nearly always comes from real vitriol. Hence the "gimp" attack.
Especially interesting considering the above is that their type always has this "holier than thou" attitude. Always morally superior, so I am wondering, what would Jesus think of your attitude towards the poor (welfare maggots!) or even your vicious personal attacks?
I said Jesus because I know you hate the followers of the worlds other major religions. I doubt Jesus would be ok with that either, but your types myopia occludes that from your zealot's view.
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