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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Nov 10, 2011 - 08:46pm PT
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Rap off whatever you can get.
Of course I'm funnin' Jim.
But when I posted a general safety pledge, he was a bit of a dick....
Take that Jimbo. Your safety subject is more important than mine?
Can you tell me why this is more important or relevant than the thread I posted Jim? I'm serious.
Read my OP again Jim. Why is your rap thread more important?
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/915508/THE-SAFETY-PLEDGE-THREAD-2009
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Nov 10, 2011 - 08:49pm PT
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Great,great post. I was always so careful with rapping except...when it came to leaving gear. I was able to be cheap and live but one memory is etched in my mind as just plain dumb. I was up on Aman cragging the lower pitches. I led the boulder pitch and was with a noobie who wanted to aid the enduro. Cool for me, I could run laps on a tr. Life is good. My partner, got to right before the crux and all hell broke loose. All these swallows started bolting out of the crack, he got scared and wanted to come down. I was like come on man just aid through it, but alas I lowered him. I went up on tr with the rack figuring I had to lead it again, only to get the same bird treatment. No way was I going to fall into that lieback with these swallows dive bombing me. I decided to lower off. Here is were the stupidity comes in. I had a booty find of a no name #3 wired cam. Really I mean no name, and had found it somewhere, maybe at the base of a climb or something. I set it along with another of my own friends and got ready to lower. At the last moment, I got cheap and pulled out the backup. I lowered off that solo booty #3, hanging is space for about 60 feet. If it pulled I was dead.
I did other dumb things climbing, but most of them were because I didn't know any better. This one was just stupid.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Nov 10, 2011 - 08:51pm PT
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I think some of us are just anti authority and anti social enough that the mention of a pledge makes us bristle. Then again others of us just might take a pledge as a mindless act, and realize that one has to keep their mind actively engaged at each moment to stay safe. Hence a pledge can be percieved as putting the brain in neutral and assuming the pledge will keep you safe.
No offense survival, we each have our own approach and hey, if the pledge saves some folks, more power to it.
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mctwisted
Social climber
slacker city
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Nov 10, 2011 - 09:07pm PT
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cragman
i heard that that the caver was almost cut in two by the time he reached the base, then there was the italian guy on the west side of el cap that went fixing with his buddies, when they asked him if he knew how to passed the fixed knot on the rappels he said he was good to go, ended up at the knot change hanging by one hand to a figure 8 (rap devise) until he pumped out then went the distance, leaving the 8 still on the rope at the knot a few hundred feet up
then there was the guy off the top of the nose that went off the end of the rope (while taking pics i think)the full distance to the base
no wonder i never liked rappeling much
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Land of God-less fools
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Nov 10, 2011 - 09:36pm PT
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Don't let the noob pull the rope!
I carry an assortment of leaver-nuts,
Headlamp!
If you hadn't got all nasty about daisy chains, you could've stayed clipped in with one while testing the rap set-up.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Nov 10, 2011 - 09:44pm PT
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A former climbing buddy of mine's wife, who I had gone to high school with but hadn't known well until meeting up years later, was killed at Table Rock in 2006 in a rappelling accident..Apparently, she had never clipped in to the ATC before she began her descent and fell 120', without a sound. No one even knew what happened until after the fact, it was over that quick.
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Bobert
Trad climber
boulder, Colorado
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Nov 10, 2011 - 09:58pm PT
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Good discussion. I think the times I have been most in danger were setting raps when storms (lightning) were approaching. I know at least once I rappelled on extremely questionable anchors in a panic. Nowadays I always tell people to not get in a rush. The chances of getting hit by lightning are much less (remote) than the chance you will die (for certain) if your anchor fails. If something bad is going to happen make sure you don't do it to yourself.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2011 - 11:24pm PT
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Great feedback, just what I was hoping for. Comments about slowing down and being careful even with seemingly cascading events are especially relevant. It's certainly the case that getting hit by lightning is less of a problem than being too hasty in setting the anchors and doing the things necessary for the right outcome.
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matlinb
Trad climber
Albuquerque
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Nov 10, 2011 - 11:36pm PT
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"Replace the buckled belt that comes with your chalk bag with a knotted sling." <- I do this. I also keep a razor blade wrapped in electrical tape in my chalk bag to use as a backup knife.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Nov 11, 2011 - 01:44am PT
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I'm totally anal about rap anchors, mine or others I run into. It's pretty obvious that you are at the mercy of this point of connection, don't skimp on it.
I always carry two runners tied from 1 inch webbing. Besides some of the already mentioned uses, another is to use a piece of it to slide the rope through for protecting the rope from sharp edges if needed. There's always a rap ring with me too along with a small loop of 5mm cord for an autoblock. Carry a headlamp with you too, they're worth their weight in gold when needed.
Good subject with good ideas and reminders, thanks all.
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surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Nov 11, 2011 - 01:49am PT
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I don't think its been said enough - weight your rap device and do another system check before disconnecting from the anchor.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Nov 11, 2011 - 01:55am PT
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The razor blade trick sounds like a good way to save weight. After you slice off one of your fingers that's got to save at least a couple of ounces, not to mention once you really get the blood loss going good!
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Nov 11, 2011 - 02:18am PT
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Besides being a wise ass I thought I might make an actual contribution.
Here is my rappeling story.
In 1978 I climbed the Kor-Ingalls on Castleton with my friend Tim Coats. At that time there wasn't much of an approach trail or anything and we wound up scrambling up the cone kind of on the Southwestern slopes. It wasn't easy getting through all the intermittent cliff bands and near the top we soloed up a couple that were tall enough to really scare me.
We finally made it to the climb, got up on top and entertained ourselves reading the summit register, checking out the famous names.
By the time we got back to the base it was pretty close to dark, short days I think it was December 29th. It was stormy and the sky was completely overcast. We went back down the way we came up, and we were able to do the two scary downclimbs before dark.
After that we lost our way in the dark. We had a couple of pretty crappy lights so we could only see our local area. We finally wound up getting cliffed out on something that looked about 30 feet tall. We walked it to the East until the slope on top got so steep and ball bearing that we were afraid we'd fall off, so we turned around and went West.
We were walking along and got to this point that gave us a view of the cliff ahead of us. What we could see of it looked the same, 30 feet that we couldn't downclimb. But on top just ahead we saw a big rock. We were elated since we could use it for a rappel anchor.
I grabbed a rope off the outside of my pack, quickly found the rough mid-point and threw it over the rock. I quickly got into a dulfersitz since my harness and all my gear was buried in the pack.
As I backed up to the edge it collapsed with me and I shot down the ropes far enough to burn holes in both my hands. Worse still, I was hanging in space not touching anything. Not being able to think about anything except the pain in my hands and getting off the rope I kept going. Bear in mind it is pitch black darkness.
I was going down the rope and wondering why I wasn't on the ground yet when one end of the rope passed through my lower hand. I immediately stopped and started screaming at Tim to help me out. I hung for a while but soon I got the realization I was going to fall off from the pain.
The reason the rock was there is that it was a drainage, and underneath it was one of those big, overhanging amphitheatres that erode in sandstone.
In desperation I hung from my upper hand and tried to tie a knot to make a loop I could sit in. Of course, I could not do this and wound up falling completely free of the rope.
As I fell I was waving my arms for balance trying to stay upright and out of the blue snagged the longer end of the rope. I held it as I fell and I could hear this high pitched wizzing noise as it pulled over the anchor. I'm sure it rode up and over the top of the anchor rock rather than pulling the whole rope, and all the rope wound up on the ground with me.
I fell perfectly, landing on my feet and collapsing onto my back. I had one of those Chouinard teardrop shape packs with the zipper top, and right in the top I had one of those rectangular Nalgene 2 liter bottles. It was empty but capped, and my head crushed it flat. I'm sure it saved my life.
After I hit I was kind of paralyzed for a while. I couldn't move at all nor make any noise. I could hear Tim screaming from above but it was a while before I could answer and allay his fear that I was dead. Apparently the noise when I hit was very impressive. I have no real idea how far I fell.
Since Tim wasn't coming down the same way he left to find a feasible passage. After a while I got it together enough to coil the rope and began half walking, half crawling back to the car.
Eventually I encountered Tim and we made it the rest of the way to the car.
I was never the same again. I badly damaged my back, I tore several of my ribs off my sternum and I broke my right pinky finger so badly I eventually had to have it surgically fused. I also got more than an inch shorter.
It was the first real climbing trip I had ever gone on and in surviving it I learned a lot. One thing I learned is what a bad idea falling off is. That knowledge guided the rest of my climbing career, even though I did all of my hardest and most dangerous climbs after this trip I have only taken a couple or three falls since. They were well protected and short.
Nick Danger
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jedster
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Nov 11, 2011 - 03:22am PT
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More tips:
In a party of 3, in that scenario where you are "testing" a primary rap anchor while it is backed up to a slack piece, might's well send down two folks first. At the same time, one on each strand, counter-balanced against each other. Doubles the load on the primary anchor, testing it more fully. Each of the first two rappellers can then tend a single rope and speed up the whole process. When you're the third in this scenario you can confidently pull out the slack back-up.
Knots in the end or no? Plenty to debate. Not gonna list all the pros and cons, but I can eliminate one of the cons. When doing multiple raps, the rope often whips from the prior pull way down the cliff, laying itself ready to go for the next pitch. No one wants to pull all that rope up in order to tie a knot. Tying a knot in the other end is easy, you should or could have done it as you threaded it. And, if you "pre-rig" the second and/or third rappellers as mentioned (above, credited to YMS guides. Little to no "cost" of doing this, even with partners of equal and enough experience) only that one knot in the end is necessary. Prerigged atc's near the anchor effectively "fix" the knotted strand. You copy?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 11, 2011 - 03:34am PT
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Great thread, great advice. The sad part is that it is so necessary a thread. It used to be more common that new climbers were introduced to the learning curve by a mentor through whom they would learn these crucial smarts.
I am amazed at the number of very experienced partners with whom I climb who do not routinely pull test and do not use the pull test as a signal for "I am down and secure."
No hollering into the wind if at all possible. The next person doesn't come down till the pull test occurs.
I am right with Dingus here. I can't remember when the last time I didn't do a pull test was. It is so obviously the clearest way to communicate that you are secure and the rope is ready. Understandable in wind, white outs and waves of other yellers in crowded areas.
My pull tests involve pulling the rope back and forth a few feet and a few times which unmistakable..
Just not as robustly if the rap is through just slings though.
Thanks Jim this is of real service.
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Nov 11, 2011 - 07:22am PT
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Speaking of rapping--anybody ever get jolted by lightning, while rappelling?
John Bouchard and I both got a good jolt while descending Devils Tower, BITD.
We never saw the approaching storm, heading in from the opposite side. Glad I didn't let go of the rope, as I'm sure we didn't tie knots in the end.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Nov 11, 2011 - 11:14am PT
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Canadian ice climber's December mantra:
"Please God let us do the last rappels back to the packs before it gets TOTALLY dark"
Raps on iced up 8.5 mm ropes can be pretty zippy so be careful.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Nov 11, 2011 - 12:00pm PT
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Great discussions of how to avoid making mistakes "that only a beginner would make," since we all still have plenty of time left to screw up - and one mistake with this phase of the climb will be your last. Our bro' on the Kor-Ingalls not only used up many of his 9 lives, but those of most of the folks here. I can't even imagine doing a free Dulfersitz!
Here's my question -
No Big Wall experience to speak of, except maybe some Grade V day climbs, aid. A problem I've encountered when rapping off slightly overhanging terrain from a hanging stance (down Pale Fire on Moses, specifically) -
How to unclip from the anchors and start your descent?
See, assuming a true hanging belay station, nothing for the feet at all - remember, the wall is ever so slightly overhanging above and below - your full body weight is on the anchors. With the slack inherent in the rap lines, I just couldn't seem to manage the weight transfer onto the rap device (even with a few leg wraps)enough to completely unweight from the anchors. Seemed like another arm or two would be handy, so to speak.
I wasn't paying attention to my partner, who'd gone down first...probably because I lost visual after he dropped over the rim. I'd probably still be up there if I hadn't carried along a pair etrier, which afforded me enough foot support to unweight from the anchors, transfer body weight to the lines, unclip from the anchors, and proceed on my merry way.
Russell once told me about a "Muntner Mule" for this type situation, but didn't go into much detail about this technique.
Tips, experiences, anyone?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 11, 2011 - 12:09pm PT
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A very worthwhile discussion---thanks, Jim! Rappelling is arguably one of the most dangerous things climbers do, and the number of accidents to experienced climbers drives home the point that familiarity can be a risk.
Although I agree with all the remarks about not being stampeded in bad conditions, I think that the number of accidents that happen in benign conditions suggest that rappelling has gotten way too routine for many of us. We do it so much that it now requires a forced mental effort to attend to the risks.
I catch myself sliding down without a care in the world, enjoying the view, watching the turkey vultures riding the updrafts, maybe conversing with climbers on a nearby route, and really not paying the appropriate amount of attention.
So I've taken a personal vow to stop at the start of the rap before unclipping from the anchors and then every thirty feet or so for just a second or two and really look around at where the ropes are going and where I'm headed. A moment to refocus on the realities of the situation---coming to a full stop seems to help.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Nov 11, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
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she had never clipped in to the ATC before she began her descent and fell 120' I've mentioned this story before and will again.
I also very nearly did this at Whitehorse. After I'd been climbing for about 15 years. In nice weather. Not even particularly tired. Not in a hurry. Being too casual.
I'd have gone about 300 feet to talus.
Always DOUBLE check before you unclip your anchor and step back!!!
rgold and I double posted. His remarks fit my situation exactly
I think that the number of accidents that happen in benign conditions suggest that rappelling has gotten way too routine for many of us.
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