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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 20, 2011 - 11:45am PT
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I'm confused. These guys, according to their blog, are sending 12+ "conventional" routes, but rating these OW's up to 14b? Then they justify the grade and their very short project time by saying they "trained hard" (for a measly piss-short 2 years..) as if the guys flailing on all the other 14b's out there don't? These ratings sound even more like BS at this point, to me.
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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Oct 20, 2011 - 12:32pm PT
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Yeah that's right. The only really good climbers are in California.
Why don't you guys go repeat these routes and then weigh in?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 20, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
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There is a good deal of parochialism in Cali that is evidenced on this forum daily.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Oct 20, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
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lots of parochialism in lots of places. st just happens to have a lot of cali posters so we get a special cali version.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Oct 20, 2011 - 01:09pm PT
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Re-post from the Gabriel thread.
//I have no doubt these OW's are difficult routes, but some of these ratings sound like bullsh#t.
How many other super talented climbers send 14d (Century Crack) on their second day, 2nd or 3rd attempt, after never having climbed any other route in the area (or anywhere else) at that grade, nor even several letters below? Why not rate it 5.16?//
** There are a stack of people climbing this hard now. Most are Spanish, Euro, or ex-pat (Sharma) but it's hardly uncommon amongst the elite. Ramon Julien just onsighted most of Rifle's hardest routes over a weekend while recovering from a comp and probably still jet lagged.
I also believe that they have yet to rate Century Crack. 9a was Haston's guess. Not sure how hard the Wide Boyz climb in other diciplines regularly but I saw Whitaker do the FA on the direct start to Braille Trail and it's one of the more impressive things I've ever seen in climbing. Keep in mind this problem had repelled all the top Brits (some not so weak) forever... on toprope. Pete did it with ground fall consequences. He is not particularly lacking in the talent realm.**
So they've climbed a lot of hard stuff in many styles, including Greenspit, a 5.14 rated crack that they have downgraded (and Haston flashed). So there is some perspective.
Yes they didn't carry the gear. They go into that, too, and rated it accordingly. Would be a bit harder, probably, but they did have to climb around the gear which seems pretty grim to me.
Maybe offwidths aren't "hard" but given the cracks that have been climbed and rated it all seems to make good sense. I'd say go tick yourself an easy 14 then.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 20, 2011 - 01:47pm PT
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I'd say go tick yourself an easy 14 then. Exactly. Why can't the various OW superstars send anything near the same grade on any other type of climbing?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Oct 20, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
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Hmm, a lot of people seem hung up on the fact they did the Century Crack with preplaced gear. I don't see what the big deal is? They came out and said what they did, and why they did it that way (only had a couple days to try the route.) Seems reasonable? Climbing is littered with FAs that have been done on TR or with preplaced gear.
Of course it's still sitting there for someone to go and do in better style.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Oct 20, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
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Would be a bit harder, probably, but they did have to climb around the gear which seems pretty grim to me.
No probably about it. Why would you need to climb around the gear? THat would be really stupid tactics. You don't climb around it, you climb to it, pull it out, stick it back in behind you and carry on. This is a roof we're talking about.
Does anyone really think if these dudes had another week they wouldn't both be able to do it carrying and placing the gear? They were honest about the style, feel free to go one-up them and improve the style on your ascent.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Oct 21, 2011 - 10:34am PT
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Incredible send!
I can say after climbing on a lot of routes that in some cases it's important for me to place all of the gear on the lead and other cases it just doesn't matter; kinda route-dependent. If they are happy with their achievement, we should be happy for them, and if we want to see it done in "better" style, all we gotta do is go do it, and then we can confirm the grade while we're at it.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Oct 21, 2011 - 10:37am PT
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The UK Wide Boyz are taking OW to a new level.
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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Oct 21, 2011 - 11:33am PT
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It seems to me that there are plenty of California climbers praising or
acknowledging the accomplishments of Tom and Pete.
The skepticism seems to be coming more from people who don't think offwidth
should be rated with high numbers.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Oct 21, 2011 - 11:39am PT
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I....think....they....are....tougher....than....I.....am......
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Oct 21, 2011 - 11:59am PT
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Numbers are for notoriety--the real grade of an off-width is in the enjoyable suffering...
It's all 5.9+ !
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eagle
Trad climber
new paltz, ny
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Oct 23, 2011 - 07:05pm PT
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mad cool
hey crusher me dave lanman here...good to here you are still out and about. we met years ago
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YoungGun
climber
North
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Nov 11, 2011 - 09:55am PT
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Trailer for a film about the Wide Boys. Includes footage of them sending Century Crack. Check it out:
http://vimeo.com/31873646
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 11, 2011 - 10:00am PT
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hey crusher me dave lanman here
is that really you, eh?
Cool. Always wondered what happened to you. I was just in Canada, in Banff, for the festival. Fun times.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 11, 2011 - 11:20am PT
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frickin' great accomplishment...
..as for the ratings, these guys are in a unique position having just climbed most of the hardest OW's in the southwest, in a relatively short time, I'd trust their opinion on the ratings...
I don't have an answer on why OW ratings seem "soft" to people who don't get on OW, I could see climbing harder in OW than I can climb other stuff, part of it is motivation, part of it is learning technique.
After about a year and a half of training Gary and I went back to Sacherer Crack, Gary lead and I heard him say at the top of the final offwidth, in a quiet voice, "that was cruisey." He made two or three moves and dispensed with a section he had flailed at, unsuccessfully, many times before. I went up and it was over in two rather easy moves. Not only was it no longer the crux of the climb, it wasn't even notable... to me the climb became a thin hands crux... the rating in Reid's is "5.9O.W." but I find it much easier than that now...
on the other hand, many people still have trouble getting through that section, and dislike it intensely...
The point is, I think, that if you train like maniacs at this sort of climbing you can get good at it, I still find all sorts of other climbing hard to do, and I doubt that I would be as motivated to get better at them to train for them... and I might also be physically more adept at OW then other styles....
and finally, not a whole lot of people want to do them, which is fine by me, keeps them free of lines.
The bottom line for the doubters is to go and climb all those climbs and rate them appropriately... this is a consensus rating system, but you have to send them to rate them. Certainly if you do that you've got a much more valid point... otherwise it's just uninformed opinion, like "how hard could that be?"
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 11, 2011 - 11:52am PT
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There are threads on that here and on the fetish. Old news. They're on to new things now
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