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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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What begins as recreation many times ends with amazing, coherent revelations about oneself.
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malabarista
Trad climber
PA, then AZ, then CO, Now CA, soon OR
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If you already have a reverence for nature and the universe I'd skip this path. It might lend you a glimpse "under the hood" at the sublime intelligence and beauty running the show but it might not too. It might just confuse and confabulate.
And ultimately these experiences do not matter in my opinion. Are you living a good life according to what you know to be the right path for you or trying to get there? Are you practicing the ways of peace and kindness whenever possible? This is enough, no psychedelic experience needed.
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WBraun
climber
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Absolutely no, drug, absolutely none, will give any spiritual gain or effect.
All drugs are material and will never ever give any spiritual enlightenment whatsoever.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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If you have to ask...???
But seriously, eating LSD is something that is best done with full 'buy in' and confidence that it is what you want for yourself. A little fear is normal, but any real doubts will fester and plague your trip.
A trip really can be like a roller coaster ride, with peaks and lows, rushes and hard curves, and more often then not you are holding on tight, trying not to fall off. But just like a roller coaster, you have faith that though the ride maybe scary, ultimately it's safe and will stop eventually. Most importantly is to remember that it was YOUR choice to jump on that ride, the drug isn't doing anything to you that you didn't want from the beginning. Since it's your first time, you obviously can't know what to expect, what you chose is the unknown, and you can only expect to be surprised. When you surrender to the flow the scary ride becomes fun, and who knows what you may discover about yourself or the world.
LSD is in many ways like a truth serum (which is why the CIA was so interested in it), and although no one may be interrogating you, your mind turns in on itself, opening doors that your conscious mind has kept closed for who knows how long. Things you may have been shutting away back in there are suddenly BAM right there out in the open in your face. You may not always like what comes up, cause it's usually the hard stuff. I think many people feel burdened to face these things and deal with them right at that time, but keep in mind you are intoxicated and it may not be the best time to try and 'figure' everything out. Recognizing these things about yourself can be enough, you'll remember when you sober up, deal with it then. That is the gift LSD can bring I think, it can awaken you to your real place in the world, and the effect you have on your surroundings and the people in your life becomes clear. I often think about family, loved ones, things that are most important in my life, things I am neglecting, issues I haven't dealt with. It's like a wake up call...sure you don't need the drug to see these things, it is what it is, a catalyst for introspection. If booze is a drug for escapism, to get drunk and forget about your worries, LSD is the polar opposite, imho.
So, I would air to the side of caution. Lots of good advice in here from experienced trippers glorifying the ride. My guess is the naysayers either never really tripped or just had one bad experience which they brought upon themselves. Only YOU can know if it's really what you want, and if there are any real doubts then maybe it isn't. You may be curious now and in consideration, and in that case your trip has already begun in some ways. You are in line for the rollercoaster, but it goes inside magic mountain so you can't really see how big or scary it is. Luckily you get to chose somewhat how big a ride you wanna go on.
Just don't half ass it. I have been with many first time trippers who are nervous and opt to cut their dose in half, to 'ease' into it, maybe saving the other half for later. I think this is a mistake personally. What it means is that you aren't %100 bought into the ride. Jump on board or not, you can't ride half-in half-out.
I'll say that having a good support group or even just one friend is big. When your mind runs away with doubt and paranoia (which is what I think most people are describing when they talk about a "bad" trip.) A friend can reign in those runaway feelings and bring you back on track, reassure you that everything is ok and there are no demons. And this doesn't even require words. Good company goes a long way. I have tripped alone, and it's a worthy adventure, but I wouldn't recommend it to someone inexperienced.
Setting is a personal choice. I have a hard time in a house, or a room. I have friends who can sit in a room and stare at the walls for hours...not me. Outdoors is always good. I like concerts with lots of sound and color and energy, for some the people at a show can be overwhelming or distracting. It's a personal preference.
The closest thing to LSD I ever did was soloing El Cap....but it was a lot more work...lol
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WBraun
climber
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Not true Karl.
You better research deeper and you'll see.
Soma is still an intoxicant and will never achieve the goal.
Those that partake in the Soma-rasa fall back down.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Kirkwood, CA
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The so called psychedelic experience and supposed enlightenment from acid, mescaline, mushrooms etc is bullsh#t. It's straight up poisoning.
I was led down that path as a youth and after much experience I came to the conclusion that it was a monumental waste of time.
Take a close look at anyone promoting these trips. Do you really want to be like them?
Couldn't agree more. It aint all fun and games and pretty lights.
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Guernica
climber
the second star to the right
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Beautifully said, DMT (a fitting nickname given the context of this thread, btw).
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Here's a note I posted to Werner on the God vs science thread with a similar theme.
"A person doesn't become a great rock climber by watching videos of climbing; it takes personal experience and effort. However, a lot of us were attracted to climbing by books we read or movies we saw, and it was the same with psychedelics.
A lot of people in the 1960's hoped that mass use of psychedelics would bring about mass enlightenment but of course that didn't happen.What did happen was that a lot of people gained a totally new perspective on reality and then went on to do the hard work of following a traditional spiritual practice.
Every ashram I've ever been to is filled with people my age who took psychedelics and wanted something more. Most of them also signed pledges that they would never again indulge in psychedelics, hypnotism, or trance channeling. Doing traditional practices means being clear about your own role in the process".
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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I have a buddy that does.
"Road trips and paper strips!" is his motto.
Seems to work for him.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Not often enough what with kids and all, but sure. Hard to find a full day to devote to it is the main problem.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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It's not about dosing anymore, more about what the trip implies.
Edit- To all the naysayers on this thread, ultimately, I agree with your conclusions of the possible harm of the experience(experiment), but I totally disagree with your tone. Sounds like fear if I wasn't afraid.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Pate,
I just spent an enjoyable couple of hours with Mister E at Joshua Tree. He's not a liar. Straight-up guy, truth-seeker, very interested in relationships and fun to be with. I also know something of his parents, from the Sixties. It's pretty clearly a case of over-enthused hippies dosing kids. I wouldn't recommend it, because childhood tends to be a natural-high, Eden-like time, and why mess with that? It obviously didn't hurt him long-term, though.
Riley Wyna,
Nothing wrong with your tone of caution, but your background info has grown outdated. Ecstasy, especially, has a bad rap that is directly traceable to evil scientists who could smell the money. Or at the very least sloppy, lazy studies that start with asking street punks, "So, what'cha on?" taking it as the truth and basing conclusions on it. One chemist analyzed supposed E and found 25% of it cut with meth.
One 2002 study, for instance, showed brain damage to serotonin nerves. It got tons of press. A year later the scientist confessed that he goofed. "Oops -- hey guys, I accidentally gave 'em crystal meth instead!" No sh!t, you can look it up: the PhD bumbly is George Ricaurte. Naturally the publicity damage was already done; his retraction got only a fraction of the press that his damaging report got.
Here's the real deal: A very clever epidemiologist stumbled on the perfect group to study for Ecstasy damage. A group not contaminated by brain damage from poly-abuse of other drugs like alcohol and meth: Mormon ravers. (No way I could make up a story this good either.)
A large-scale study, full FDA-approved protocol, nearly $2 million funding from either NIDA or NIMH (I forget). Absolutely no evidence of brain damage.
That study was published this February. Here's an article about it: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/20/ecstacy-doesnt-damage-the_n_825704.html
This is how it goes in the politics of consciousness. Lots of powerful people with button-down minds are extremely threatened by the exploration of the universe within. So if you happen to be interested in looking at the edges of what we know, you have to be very agile to duck the bullsh!t from those who are afraid of what's out there.
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matlinb
Trad climber
Albuquerque
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Just read a book called My Stroke of Insight. . .
"The astonishing New York Times bestseller that chronicles how a brain scientists own stroke led to enlightenment On December 10, 1996, Jill Bolte Taylor, a thirty-seven- year-old Harvard-trained brain scientist experienced a massive stroke in the left hemisphere of her brain. As she observed her mind deteriorate to the point that she could not walk, talk, read, write, or recall any of her lifeall within four hoursTaylor alternated between the euphoria of the intuitive and kinesthetic right brain, in which she felt a sense of complete well-being and peace, and the logical, sequential left brain, which recognized she was having a stroke and enabled her to seek help before she was completely lost. It would take her eight years to fully recover. For Taylor, her stroke was a blessing and a revelation. It taught her that by stepping to the right of our left brains, we can uncover feelings of well-being that are often sidelined by brain chatter."
Very interesting!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Absolutely no evidence of brain damage
I thought you said they were Mormons?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I'll tell you, I thought I was getting a lot of benefit and insight from this sh#t. It increased my awareness of myself and nature.
Then I noticed others doing it getting hurt even killed!
Then there were a few incidents where bad things happened to me too.
I supposed I should question these things but I guess I still find the beauty and insight outweigh the risks, even as they become blatant.
No, I don't think I can give up climbing. Sure glad we don't risk prison to do it, like the base jumpers.
Peace
Karl
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A community of hairless apes
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2011 - 11:36am PT
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Hey Matlinb,
Jill Bolte Taylor's at TED Talks. I remember her. In her talk she brings out a real live brain to point out the clear demarcation between the left and right sides and to discuss their distinct functionalities. She also discusses the strange perceptions that came to her consciousness just as she was stroking. She probably described that in her book, too. A wild ride I can only imagine.
I have a background in neuroscience. Pulling out the brain was reminiscent. Because once upon a time I stood in a lab in front of a tray of four human brains. With the oppo to dissect them. I was doing comparative studies in a basic neurobiology course at the time. That was pretty wild, too.
.....
I would suggest that those of us with self esteem issues or suffering from depression stay the f*#k away from psychedelics. Once you swallow the jagged little pill the self-exam won't stop for a very long time.... Sometimes too much personal information is just TMI, nawmean?..A little self delusion is good for the modern man.
DR, Karl, that's pretty good beta, too, don't you think?
.....
EDIT
What she described as "lala land" in her TED Talk I could say I felt, too, the only time I ever "browned out" from playing too hard in underwater hockey in a swimming pool. It is a beautiful feeling - real lala like - when you're brain is robbed of oxygen. And ironic, since it is dying.
It is an irony of life that a pathological condition in the brain like a stroke, for instance, or hypoxia can give us what we seek - (a feeling of) nirvana.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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I would suggest that those of us with self esteem issues or suffering from depression stay the f*#k away from psychedelics. Once you swallow the jagged little pill the self-exam won't stop for a very long time.... Sometimes too much personal information is just TMI, nawmean?..A little self delusion is good for the modern man.
DR, Karl, that's pretty good beta, too, don't you think?
DMT's advice is usually golden. Love it! Most of what he says right there is spot on. But as far as depression goes I have to disagree. I have a diagnosed case, took Prozac 6-8 years, etc. I never had any personal problem with weed or psychedelics in a lifetime of depression.
Just the opposite. Weed helps. And psychedelics help a lot. There are a number of studies now going on or about to start that will show that, clinically. Read about them at MAPS.org
I took 5MeO-DMT -- sometimes called "Jaguar" -- while on Prozac. It was under wise supervision, and there was some concern about magnifying the effects, but my trip was peaceful and contained beautiful visions. One of them so striking it's been a guide to me ever since.
I was never suicidal, so maybe that would be a caution. I honestly don't know.
But I wish I had taken Ayuhoasca instead of Prozac. And I think I will someday. It's not a priority for me -- my brain-mind is as healthy as it's ever been -- but the results with depression especially are striking.
Read back through Karl's posts #54-55 (current count. A few good posters have "excused" themselves form this discussion). Dr. Charles Grob shows very positive evidence of permanent help for depressed brains from Ayuhoasca. Karl points to an article. I second the recommendation. A woman plagued by depression and not helped by straight therapies gets a striking cure in the Amazon. A great read:
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I would suggest that those of us with self esteem issues or suffering from depression stay the f*#k away from psychedelics. Once you swallow the jagged little pill the self-exam won't stop for a very long time.... Sometimes too much personal information is just TMI, nawmean?..A little self delusion is good for the modern man .
DR, Karl, that's pretty good beta, too, don't you think
Drugs or no drugs, I think people struggle with what they want to deny, with what they can't face.
For me, life is about facing those things and resolving them. Perhaps the modern man needs to do that in a controlled way if the demons have sharp teeth. I would definitely say that most people's bad experiences with psychedelics come from being faced with things within themselves they don't want to face, which is also why there can be therapeutic potential for those ready to face things. The studies regarding psychedelic treatments for addiction and PTSD were showing very much better results than the psychiatric community is used to but the war on drugs made it impossible for anyone to stand up and say so lest they be demonized and marginalized. I know a woman who used LSD to relive her childhood abuse and resolve the traumas within. She got great insight and considerable healing but only because she was determined to face everything, otherwise it would be a nightmare.
The 90 year old with insomnia who finally got help from weed and weed alone (versus valium and seriously dependency inducing stuff the doctors called for) used to think weed was some kind of derelict, evil substance that criminals used and which inspired criminal behavior. Now that he can quietly stay in bed, without crazy side-effects, it's plain that the rumors were just hype to distract from domestic problems by demonizing a part of the population who couldn't stand up and speak back, and which confused truly devastating substances like Meth and Cocaine with a substance less risky than most pharmaceticals.
Peace
Karl
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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It is an irony of life that a pathological condition in the brain like a stroke, for instance, or hypoxia can give us what we seek - (a feeling of) nirvana
You can get there with meditation, vision quests, and yoga practices also, and be more alive than ever.That's why a lot of us don't take psychedelics anymore.
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