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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jun 15, 2011 - 07:24pm PT
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Werner, you are wasting your time with mental speculations. All this is an illusion anyway. Do you know what is real?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 15, 2011 - 07:40pm PT
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folks drop like flies on 8000ers, but there's not a huge thread on ST or wherever with a famous climber weighing in to say that no one should ever climb annapurna. One, let me just say that Honnold's solo is just rad beyond words. If he's got the chops to do it, then let the guy do it.
Two, no one wrings their hands over guys bagging 8000m peaks (perhaps other than their families). However, I think it's generally kind of understood that most of them out there climbing hard stuff are eventually going to run out of luck. How many people who have climbed all 14 8000m peaks--or who climbed lots of hard routes on individual peaks--are still alive?
I was just looking at a classic shot of Tom Horbein and Willi Unsoeld starting up the West Ridge of Everest. It was like that were in a dingy prepaing to row across the Atlantic. Who knew if they were coming back?
But I digress...congrats to Alex.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 15, 2011 - 09:41pm PT
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Elcapinyoazz -- "All this is an illusion anyway. Do you know what is real?"
In this material world everything is real although temporary.
The illusion comes when one believes the material world is all there is .....
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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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Jun 15, 2011 - 09:51pm PT
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Honnold's actions are part of a Vendetta. We met in Squamish years ago. When I told him I'd fallen off the crux of Pipeline, he went and soloed it. When I was driving to Zion to free climb Moonlight Buttress, he called and told me he had soloed it. Regular route on Half Dome, The Rostroman, just about any long hard free route I've tried- samee thing. I've been working on Phoenix this spring- getting close- so you know what Alex did?
He's a nice guy- for a dick.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Jun 15, 2011 - 10:34pm PT
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^^^
That is funny!
Have you been on freerider recently?
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jun 15, 2011 - 11:13pm PT
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He's a nice guy- for a dick.
LOL.
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MisterE
Social climber
Cinderella Story, Outa Nowhere
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Jun 15, 2011 - 11:28pm PT
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Too funny, James.
How 'bout those bangs?
;)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jun 15, 2011 - 11:41pm PT
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Careful james, calling honnold out on supertopo is likewalking onto the set of Tool Time and giving Tim Allen the finger. Gonna piss off the fanboys here :)
I popped around the corner in yos and ran into him, segal, harrington and elias... and was wearing his shirt. Wouldn't have felt any geekier if I was dressed up as a storm trooper.
Long undies under shorts didn't help either. I am so beta male hehe.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Jun 16, 2011 - 01:27am PT
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sure it is wb
this verily is that
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 16, 2011 - 02:30am PT
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Wow!
also that James is pretty funny!
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drewsky
climber
Seattle
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Jun 16, 2011 - 02:46am PT
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The only thing I would call into question is totally unrelated to the integrity of the solo ascent, but more about the the climb itself: It's more like hard 5.11 at the beginning and the crack is never tips size (unless your fingers are huge), rather good finger size widening to baggy fingers at the crux and thin hands for the overhanging finish. It's totally on par with Equinox when it comes down to the nitty gritty and deserves no hyperbole (3x as hard as Equinox = no). It's truly a 5.13 crack for skilled mortals.
That said, fu!&ing good job, Alex! I hope there are some decent pics of that on the way.
Edit: Sorry. I'll put this on Mountain Project where it will be interpreted as route beta instead of slander.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Jun 16, 2011 - 12:18pm PT
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Eagerly awaiting photos.
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Peter
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Jun 16, 2011 - 03:36pm PT
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Response to Haan....
Maybe the main thrust of my original post was a little muddled. I am awed by what Alex has achieved. But, I am sickened by the consequences if he peels.
Peter in Sf, of course everyone here is concerned, and concerned about each and every one of us. We have discussed this at length already as you do note. Part of what climbing has always meant are these kinds of adventures---- ones where the climber very well might die in the doing and for the slightest of reasons. It is nothing new. Roped or not. Climbing is actually real, you know, and has hideous danger in much of its execution. It may or may not be able to justify it deaths; that is a huge and separate subject.
I mostly agree with you here, astonshing, huh?. Being in the moment on a climb near my limits - inner voice calm, trusting my ability - is sublime and like nothing else I have ever experienced.
But some climbing deaths are particularly appalling and questionable specifically because they were for the slightest of reasons. Exhibit A would be Skinner.
What you might consider understanding better, is your notion that Alex’s reward for his unroped outings is “cameras, sponsorship, and fame”. It just isn’t. His reward and the result of such radical outings is so far beyond the material realm as to make your query blatantly uninformed, with due respect. When you do climbing like this, the ecstatic and transcendental nature of your outing is ever so much more your focus that suggestions by others that you are up there seeking ordinary gain can only seem to be irrelevant and in fact churlish, even if not intended to be so.
Blatantly uninformed, with due respect??
How do YOU know what makes Alex tick?
Unlike the rest of us, Honnold is getting very tangible rewards for putting his neck on the line. His climbs are filmed and well publicized because they are free solos with no margin for error. The risk could be (almost) eliminated by throwing on a rope, but then who would care?
I don't think that Honnold climbs to make money anymore than any other top athlete. But, just like any other top athlete, there are significant incentives beyond the merely transcendental to do be the best in the field. To a degree beyond almost any other sport and particularly for Honnold, that means taking horrendous risks.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Jun 16, 2011 - 04:07pm PT
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Wow! Chilling and impressive.
Erik
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drewsky
climber
Seattle
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Jun 17, 2011 - 02:55pm PT
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I suppose it's inevitable for people to question the purity of motives when it comes to top-notch climbers, but attempts to frame the climbers as media whores is just a rhetorical tool, especially in the context of internet forums. Basically, someone like Alex would have to intentionally hide his intentions at this point to avoid any glint of media spotlight. If Alex gets to do what he enjoys in part because people document his actions, sometimes for commercial purposes, why would he dream of playing down his achievements? When the commercial purpose is sometimes to produce inspiring footage of the event for thousands of viewers, does that somehow tarnish the motives of the climber himself? What level of self-promotion is acceptable to armchair critics (keeping in mind that some type of self-promotion is what nets anyone a job, a mate, etc.)? Any 'good/bad' judgment raises far more questions than it answers. It's impossible to be certain what the true intentions are of someone who solos in front of a camera, but sharing such intensely personal events has plenty of precedent. My guess is that along with a fierce personal drive, people like Wolfgang Gullich, Alex Huber and Alex Honnold (to name but a few) have no particular qualms about having visual records kept of their accomplishments to share with others, especially if it allows them more latitude for their pursuits.
Edit: Not to say that there's an absolute excess of denigrating comments in this thread; rather some musings about the role that media might play in this scenario.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Near Tahoe, CA
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Jun 17, 2011 - 04:48pm PT
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So the only people who deserve a spotlight are people with belayers and spotters?
Why can't the first person to solo Moonlight Buttress or NW Reg Route of Half Dome get the attention?
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frog-e
Trad climber
Imperial Beach California
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Jun 17, 2011 - 05:57pm PT
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Alex isn't going to get killed climbing, roped or otherwise. He's playing with a full deck and is super smart. His computer/brain'll tell him when it's enough. It's just a wee bit mind blowing for the average to believe it when they see...a prodigy.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Jun 17, 2011 - 06:02pm PT
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Drewsky - the bottom (shallow dihedral) is long reaches between first knuckle tips pinscars. I don't know how anyone can call that "good fingers"! Maybe you didn't rappel low enough to start?
I think the "Snickers" description from above (reprinted below) is accurate, except for the part about the 100 ft of endurance. If you get about 5 feet past the diagonal part it becomes much easier, the thin hands are solid because the crack is so clean and there is a ramp on the right.
"Overhanging, right-leaning (barn-doory), tip-locks, dime-sized feet, 7-8 solid moves long and the crack is angled at a 45 degree angle upward into the rock so it's really awkward to get the right body position. The first 25-30 feet would also be crazy - solid 5.12 pin scars that are widely spaced in a very shallow corner - smearing for feet. After the crux it's full on endurance for 100 feet or so of overhanging, right-leaning, off fingers."
No way is Phoenix "on par" with Equinox! Phoenix is 5.13, Equinox is 5.12c (if that!). I think Phoenix is slightly harder than Cosmic Debris actually.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jun 17, 2011 - 07:47pm PT
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Once again Peter in SF and folks,
We have been doing these kinds of extreme solos for more than fifty years. There is a pretty massive unwritten history of unroped climbing in the modern era. Myself included in there even. It just isn’t new. But often the community gets pretty excited over these events when actually the ascents are right in stride with climbing generally, however horrifically.
And given that the degree of all climbing has slid up five levels since severe solos took a place on the modern stage and a rope became optional, there really isn’t anything new (relatively) here with Alex’s activities. They are the logical extension of decades of such risky undertakings and a bunch of generations of us his mentors. And these kinds of ascents will continue onwards, certainly. Alex is well-read, terrifically talented and does revere Croft--- what should we expect!
We were extreme soloing decades before there was any money whatsoever available for such achievements and for sponsorship. And I can’t recall any photos or movies taken of solos until the later seventies. Money, material gain, most of what happens on the ground actually, can not be further from our minds and couldn’t have been when there wasn’t any money whatsoever obviously and whatever else might have motivated one, was just as transitory as it is now when you are doing top level moves far above the ground. Your mind is just far cleaner then. As an expert climber, you know you just don’t take these risks unless they spring from your deepest feelings and needs, not from surface issues and for the sake of others.
That there is now often photography taken of some of these outrageous feats is only a tertiary fact to the event, or re-enacted event. To cite this activity as the reason for the climbing is of course uninformed and ungracious. And I for one am very grateful that some of this history is being recorded; it is important.
We have lost some soloists. It was horrible when we did. We will lose more of them, too. And it will always be. Likewise, we will lose plenty of regular climbers toiling away on their more conventional challenges---they aren’t quaranteed full immunity because they are modest in their exploits. And we lose baker’s dozens of them in the Himalayas in a single week sometimes too, similarly pointlessly if you extract from the motive, the transcendental seeker. Climbing whether roped or unroped involves much more than a day out in the wilderness or bracing for comely challenges on safe formations. At the vanguard, it usually means almost unimaginable flights of risk and vision, often enough at phenomenal costs of all sorts. Some of this human experience makes its way back into literature, a good part of it doesn’t but is carried in our oral and personal traditions, often for centuries.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jun 17, 2011 - 08:18pm PT
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^Mr Hahn, thank you. Please write the book on the history of soloing. Your writing has the wisdom of first hand experience, and I love to read it. The innate love you have for climbing shines through.
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