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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 11, 2006 - 11:05pm PT
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Roger, we had so many rules back then it is a wonder we ever got up anything...
...yes, the knee thing is definitely bullshit (or perhaps a better word, deprecated), but no one would believe me when I said there was this rule... and the old day penalty was buying the wine (or beer, depending on France or the US). So not so bad.
I use my knee these days, but then I need to use all parts of my body now to get up things.
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fletch
Social climber
South Lake Tahoe, Ca.
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Feb 12, 2006 - 10:16pm PT
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Chris,
Use it. Then I'll know what your talking about. Pushing ethics and taking offense about such a thing are one in the same. Silly. I must say that I'm way fired up to see your new book. I have been able to climb harder than 5.9, but haven't had to rely on aid yet. I just lower back to the ground.
fletch F. Fletch
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426
Sport climber
Campus Punks Slab, Rocktown
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Feb 13, 2006 - 11:07am PT
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Funny, Fletch.
Honest to (a paternal monotheistic deity) that's how I learned how to climb. Those 'old's cool' South Shore boyz used to lower you any time you weighted the rope.
Thank (same deity) that I "discovered" bouldering at Pie Shop one day. Led to the long ethical slide that I'm still on...
On the OT, I think 'French Free' is pretty common term for walls; but I like Reno Lar's wry comment as well...
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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Feb 13, 2006 - 11:49am PT
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Funny how the old dads used to lionize bouldering as the purest form of climbing, the best training, etc etc, but if you fell off over and over again with a rope on then you were suddenly some kind of cheat.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Feb 13, 2006 - 12:20pm PT
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Hrm...I was always under the impression that is was SUPPOSED to be offensive. Apparently it isn't doing the job...maybe it should be changed to "'The French are F*cking Pussies and So Are You' Free" so as to be absolutely clear.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Feb 13, 2006 - 02:42pm PT
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Belgium invented French Fries.
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Degaine
climber
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Feb 14, 2006 - 08:38am PT
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I learned to climb in France, and I found the term “French Free” to be funny/ironic when I moved back to California.
In the French guidebooks it’s either indicated as an A0 move, or its mentioned that there are one or two moves where one has to pull on gear (tire clou). Most of these climbs are considered “free-climbs” or at least climbs that do not require any aid climbing skills whatsoever. Royal Arches falls into this category, for example.
Anyway, if French Free is part of the common climbing vernacular in the U.S. then just use it.
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Mig
Trad climber
Coimbra, Portugal
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Feb 14, 2006 - 09:20am PT
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French free = A0 (very simple and not offensive)
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Feb 14, 2006 - 11:29am PT
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Imagine a 400 foot dead vertical wall. A wall that you cannot get a no hands rest on. You're putting up a first ascent. You climb 200 feet of 5.11c knobs. You hook a knob and drill your anchor which you then hang on. Your partner follows, gets to the anchor, clips it and then hangs. He then re-racks and sends the other 200 feet of 5.11c to the top. Router rating: A0 5.11c. The anchor you hung on did not allow for upward progress. It did keep you from climbing the entire 400 feet of 5.11c freeclimbable rock and thus the entire route isn't free. Go back with a 400 foot cord and send w/o the anchor if you want to call it totally free.
Now.. imagine you want to blast up a 10 pitch climb as fast as you can. Imagine it's on El Cap. If someone gave me beta on doing this I'd hope they told me there are sections you'll want to french free. Clip bolt, yard to next bolt, clip it and yard to the next. Yard one more time to 5.10- ground and you are back to free climbing the rock.
To me the terms come from two different worlds (and would't it be C0 not A0 in most cases anyway?) and should stay that way.
A0 != french free. Maybe it makes more sense to the speed freaks.
I'm part french and don't consider the term offensive.
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climberweenie
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Feb 14, 2006 - 02:02pm PT
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distantly relevant to this thread: cubic zirconium is called "American Diamond" in India.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Feb 14, 2006 - 02:27pm PT
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As a total noob when it comes to climbing history, I'd always understood "French Free" to mean "pulling on gear for a moment or to rest while otherwise doing the climb without other aid but then claiming a free ascent."
Dave
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Feb 14, 2006 - 02:38pm PT
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i think "french free" is a fairly established term in most circles. my only question is, what does it really mean?
i have always thought of "french free" being something that a climber might resort to in the event they are unwilling (too scary?) or unable (too hard?) to pull through a particular move or section. whenever free climbing, i have always considered that to be cheating, and not something to be taken lightly.
i think the only climb i have ever done where i intentionally pulled on gear while not fully aiding was on the NWFoHD, and i didn't personally think of it as the same thing as "french free" climbing (although it may have been?). we were just doing whatever was the fastest thing. i know that we free'd some 5.10, and i may have yarded on gear through some 5.8 if it seemed somehow inobvious, i was just trying to move.
i guess what i am saying is that i think of that practice as "anything goes", and i think "french free" is different, and somehow it's worse, it's something i have always tried to avoid at all costs.
edit-
but any of these terms is going to get the point across, you are not trying to free climb, just to be as fast as you can be.
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