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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2011 - 01:17am PT
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Once again I ask, who among us has died or had a near death experience and has come back to life to continue living this life?
Please raise your hands and tell us about your experience . . .
Again, 2 well documented cases in our modern period of time . . .
So, you just brush it off and say they are lying and/or delusional?
Also who among us has clinically died, or has had a near death experience to come back and tell us about it, and this can be medically verified? Certainly not PhD Stephen Hawkings. If he had he wouldn't have said what he has so publicly claimed.
Two great books to read:
Heaven is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back [Paperback]
Todd Burpo (Author), Lynn Vincent (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Real-Little-Astounding-Story/dp/0849946158/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=IGT91B2LS1K4T&colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G
90 Minutes in Heaven: A True Story of Death & Life [Paperback]
Don Piper (Author), Cecil Murphey (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/90-Minutes-Heaven-Story-Death/dp/0800759494/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c
I have read both books. The eye-witness testimony is backed up by medical doctors who can validate the fact that yes they were dead, or had a near death experience.
The little boy saw things in his out of body experience before he left the hospital to another Dimension or Heaven that validates that indeed it happened, as far as eye-witness can validate. He witnessed his mother and father doing things in private separate from one another that only the father would know he had done, and only the mother would know she had done. The boy testified to what they were both doing in private that no-one living had witnessed them do. This blew away the parents both. They were shocked by this when the boy told them specifically what they were doing when the parents were at the hospital worried that they were going to lose their little boy. He saw them and what they were doing as he was floating in a spiritual realm above them, then he went to Heaven for a period of time. And after some time in Heaven, then Jesus sent him back, because the father prayed to GOD not to take his little boy from him. Jesus heard his prayer and honored the father's prayer, and he sent the little boy back to his parents. Jesus even told the little boy this before doing so. He explained why he was sending him back to be with his parents again. The boy knew this and told his parents so.
Both books are eye-opening accounts and very good short reads.
There are some things that you just can't argue out of. Our founding fathers of science, many were men of faith. And people do die or have near death experiences and go to "Heaven" (where ever it is), and come back to tell us about it.
You can choose to believe it or not.
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WBraun
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 01:38am PT
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We were doing a litter raise many years ago when the patient went into full cardiac arrest. His heart stopped.
He's dead.
We stopped the raise and the medic started cpr and brought him back.
Then when we got him to the top his eyes had that look that he was starting to leave again and we brought him back again.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 18, 2011 - 01:41am PT
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who among us has died or had a near death experience and has come back to life to continue living this life
I not only read but posted to SuperTopo, and returned from the dead.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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May 18, 2011 - 01:47am PT
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How can you prove something exists without empirical evidence?
As I mentioned in a response to you somewhere else on here, you only seek that which affirms your beliefs.
It seems to me that you are not secure in your own beliefs. What do you expect from posting all this religious and conspiracy theory stuff on here? Does someone changing their beliefs based on what you posted give you some kind of warm fuzzy sense of validation?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2011 - 01:47am PT
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MH,
Are you saying you had a near death experience? If so I'm listening. What did you experience? Tell us. Or have you posted this to ST before?
Paul,
Do we not all experience wonderful and/or scary experiences that we have no empirical evidence for to share with others, but we tell our experiences anyway? Should we now just ignore each other and our individual experiences if we can't empirically prove them?
Should I discount all your climbing experiences if you can't prove it to me with other eye-witnesses from your climbing partners, pictures, and video?
Are we now that jaded that we can't believe one another ever?
These people do indeed give other eye-witness accounts and validation as much as we can expect them to. I suppose they can post the medical records of the event and personal verification from their doctors. Oh, they did give these evidences in the books. Mybad.
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WBraun
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 01:51am PT
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Empirical evidence.
Observation and experiment is conducted with limited senses, therefore the conclusions are naturally limited and imperfect.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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May 18, 2011 - 01:54am PT
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Empirical evidence.
Observation and experiment is conducted with limited senses, therefore the conclusions are naturally limited and imperfect.
Human sensation is subjective. ;)
We all don't perceive reality the same way. We all have a different analogue that filters our sense of reality. This is why we all have different interpretations of our experiences.
If you believe in ghosts, you will see ghosts.
If you believe in miracles, you will see miracles.
I don't believe either, so I never see them. ;)
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MH2
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 01:55am PT
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Any observation on how mathematics is conducted, Werner?
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WBraun
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 01:57am PT
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We all don't perceive reality the same way.
That's why you have Supreme Court.
Although you'll never really understand what I really mean by that ....
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2011 - 02:05am PT
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It seems to me that you are not secure in your own beliefs. What do you expect from posting all this religious and conspiracy theory stuff on here? Does someone changing their beliefs based on what you posted give you some kind of warm fuzzy sense of validation?
No.
I enjoy the ST community when it doesn't get too unruly.
I like talking about deep stuff and questions and subjects that we all don't usually talk about in person. Who talks about the "Forbidden Secret Knowledge" openly with others? These topics are taboo.
Don't we all know not to talk about religion and politics in person with others. Feelings get hurt and people get upset. It is easier to do so on the "Internets." It is safer to some affect. Perhaps that is why some act their worse when doing so. I try not to do that.
It beats flossing the teeth of home-less dogs by a long shot. ;-))
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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May 18, 2011 - 02:15am PT
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Toadgas is a key ingredient in Stumpjuice. It doesn't matter what it is, but you need it.
Heaven? Why would I be interested in what Hawking thought about a concept that is probably wholly misunderstood by anyone that would write about it.
Could you imagine a place that eternally is perfect. Does anything evolve? Does time exist as we know it?
You can only hurt yourself if you try to hard to think about this stuff. Someone has to take out the garbage.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 18, 2011 - 02:20am PT
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Observation and experiment is conducted with limited senses, therefore the conclusions are naturally limited and imperfect.
And how do you know our sense are not perfect?
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WBraun
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 02:21am PT
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Could you imagine a place that eternally is perfect.
We're living it right now but we can't see how that is, because we're constantly projecting all our own limitations and faults onto everything outside of us.
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WBraun
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 02:24am PT
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You're pretty dense Port.
How many people need glasses.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 18, 2011 - 02:24am PT
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read deeper, you're missing the point.
If all we have are our "senses," through which the world is experienced, how do we know what is real and what is fake? Because reality is constructed through sense, we can only rely upon those same senses to determine what is real.
So if you say that our sense of reality is warped because we are limited in our ability to 'sense', you're making an illogical statement, because you yourself are relying upon those same senses to determine what you believe to be true and cast aspersions to our version of reality. Whereas, logically, your ideas of reality, because based on the same senses, are equally warped.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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May 18, 2011 - 02:26am PT
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Perhaps Werner, but I tend to think our imperfection is a perfect impetus to face the faceless and try to be like that.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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May 18, 2011 - 07:24am PT
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Modern science already proved that the upper planetary systems in the universe exist.
These upper planetary systems are the heavenly planets.
At the same time the modern scientist says something he's already proven to exist starts denying it even though everyone can see it.
How weird is that .....
Nice play on words, Werner. Guess I could post a pic of a girl named Heaven and do the same, but that's not quite what we're talking about, is it?
Once again I ask, who among us has died or had a near death experience and has come back to life to continue living this life?
Please raise your hands and tell us about your experience . . . I have, and wrote about it on this forum in detail in another thread, discussing the same thing.
How quickly, and conveniently, you wilfully forget, ignore, and deny.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2011 - 09:44am PT
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rrradam,
Where? How about adding a link to point others to it?
I'm unaware of your experience.
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monolith
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 09:45am PT
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Who's opinion do you consider relevant about the existence of God, other than your own, DMT?
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monolith
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 09:52am PT
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I'm fine with that. Just your previous statement seemed to single out Hawking cause he was an expert in some other area, giving his opinion, implying that an expert in a more appropriate field might be better.
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