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curious
Trad climber
Henderson
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May 24, 2011 - 05:41pm PT
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Great accident report, thanks for sharing and glad you are ok! A couple of questions:
1) What kind of belay device was Steve using and what happened when he caught the fall? You also mentioned he had you on an assisted belay when you came back up, do you mean a 3:1 or 5:1 haul or just and assisted locking belay device?
2) Why did you guys decide to wait for rescue instead of trying to rap? It appears from the pictures that Steve was hauling a second rope? I would guess that you were being conservative not knowing the extent of your injuries and freaked out because of the accident, but I think I would have been more worried about the weather and try to get down. Not trying to argue with your actions, just understand the thought process.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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May 24, 2011 - 05:49pm PT
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I want to know what Royal Robbins was doing in that In-and-Out burger on the 2nd-to-last photo in the TR. The ratio of omega-3s to omega-6s is way wrong at In-and-Out.
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tantrikclimber
climber
San Francisco, CA
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May 25, 2011 - 02:08am PT
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1) What kind of belay device was Steve using and what happened when he caught the fall? You also mentioned he had you on an assisted belay when you came back up, do you mean a 3:1 or 5:1 haul or just and assisted locking belay device?
2) Why did you guys decide to wait for rescue instead of trying to rap? It appears from the pictures that Steve was hauling a second rope? I would guess that you were being conservative not knowing the extent of your injuries and freaked out because of the accident, but I think I would have been more worried about the weather and try to get down. Not trying to argue with your actions, just understand the thought process.
Steve was just using a very ordinary ATC. By 'assisted belay' I mean that he kept the rope snug and helped me climb up. Nothing fancy.
No, we just had one rope. I was definitely hurt and spooked and since we were able to contact the authorities via phone, we decided to wait.
Thanks again all for the good wishes and the feedback. Don't be afraid to comment directly in the blog as well :)
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Jin
climber
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May 26, 2011 - 04:38pm PT
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I'm assuming that this TR on Kush's public blog should be posted here. There are really good lessons here for all of us, especially us gym climbers, sport climbers, boulderers.
http://tantrikclimber.blogspot.com/2011/05/loves-leap-lake-tahoe-trip-report.html
I don't exaggerate when I say that Kush is one of the most positive friendly climbers in San Francisco. Kush, we're glad you're still with us.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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May 26, 2011 - 05:06pm PT
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Jin,
He (Kush) posted the link above.
Erik
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Phil Olinick
Boulder climber
There
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May 27, 2011 - 07:42am PT
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I'm very glad that both of you are okay. But this is an accident which never, ever, should have happened, likely right down to your partner's wrenching back pain. My generation never would have called for the rescue. You don't need a mobile phone, and you shouldn't need a helmet at a heavily climbed area like Lover's Leap (which has an easy approach).
It's not your fault. The outdoor industry is difficult and sometimes corrupt, and now climbing is filled with people more interested in their superficial misconceptions and glitz or finding husbands than with the wonders of bouldering, sport climbing, traditional climbing, and alpine climbing. Those who do grasp the wonders while pulling on artificial holds made from noxious chemicals, likely were robbed an apprenticeship with climbers who could pass along the vital knowledge for going safely and casually into the majestic vertical world while placing removeable gear.
Formerly climbers taught one another the vital, often tiny, details of traditional rock climbing, for nothing more than a belay partner, or simply as their contribution to the brotherhood / sisterhood of climbers. The ignorance so many climbers suffer today is dangerous, and needs to be corrected by experienced climbers working at their best -- informally and ignoring the pressure of their avaricious or desperate sponsors. With so few climbers today who have adequate "traditional" style climbing experience to tackle this mess, I don't have high hopes.
As I said 20 years ago, we need a climber-funded stainless steel, glue-in bolt replacement program for sport climbing. Also predictably, now it seems we need something similar for traditional climbing. Here in Europe, I've been impressed (in France) by how some guides teach beginners the important basics. But with so little rock which easily takes stoppers or cams or runners, this is not the continent for traditional-style climbers. In the US, who teaches the new-comers? What do they know about the vital details, the subtleties?
Good luck. I wish you all good pilgrimages. The irony is that you are not missing a lot of information. But like so many things today, the vital information lies beneath a pile of confusions. The garbage which separates you from basic knowledge has murdered and left people maimed for life.
-Phil Olinick www.kornetzky.ch/GodNoSaySo
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ruppell
climber
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May 27, 2011 - 07:57am PT
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Here his is an accident which never, ever, should have happened
Begs to question should any accident ever happen.
Anyway besides this as#@&%e cheers to you guys for getting down safe and being honest in your recounting of the events.
and hell petch I'll buy you a beer.
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BillL
Trad climber
NM
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May 27, 2011 - 09:14am PT
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Steve, Kush,
I'll wager that you did the right thing staying put. A climbing accident, even falling on lead if it is foreign, can mess with your head and so lead to worse mistakes. That's not to say no one should self rescue. It's to say, not everyone should self rescue.
And I'll add, lots of questions for you and you partner to answer post-accident ... to which your trip report makes leaps and bounds.
Bill L
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Phil Olinick
Boulder climber
There
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May 27, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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//Rupel wrote: Begs to question should any accident ever happen.
Because I wrote: But this is an accident which never, ever, should have happened, likely right down to your partner's wrenching back pain.//
Of course accidents happen.
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harpo
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
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May 27, 2011 - 04:47pm PT
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Kush, I know how to contact the Eldorado SAR and Lake Valley Fire personel who where on your rescue. Drop me a pm if you want to contact them to thank them. I am with Eldo SAR but wasn't on that particular rescue. Also, a donation would be nice but trust me, you don't want to pay the full cost of the mission. If you are a CA resident, the Eldo Sheriff's Office might send your home county a bill; they may or may night pay up.
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Phil Olinick
Boulder climber
There
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May 28, 2011 - 01:37am PT
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Ron, seeing slow, learning, and occasionally strange climbers at the crags is not new. I avoid them like the plague if they're above me, especially with loose rock around.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, and because it's a strong possibility, that Kush's gear pulled out because he didn't fully grasp the concept of using directional pieces and attaching runners where appropriate. Litigation concerns aside, why couldn't he find that basic knowledge easily? A video on the Internet, perhaps?
 Google: Over 3 stikes, and five minutes of my time.
Wikipedia, English: Would not have helped Kush much. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_climbing#Typical_sequence);
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Phil Olinick
Boulder climber
There
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May 28, 2011 - 02:19am PT
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Not exactly. The information these people need to climb safely and casually has been twisted and buried, sometimes intentionally.
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john hansen
climber
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May 28, 2011 - 02:45am PT
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I would be interested in how none of the pro ended up hooked to the rope..
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Tahoe climber
climber
Davis these days
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May 28, 2011 - 02:49am PT
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@Phil: Litigation concerns? WTF are you talking about?
Information buried intentionally? Are you f#cking crazy?
It's clear you're completely full of sh#t.
TC
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 28, 2011 - 03:16am PT
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It's clear you're completely full of sh#t.
No, no, you don't understand. Back when he was a kid he had to climb the North Face of the Eiger every day just to go to school and then ride home forty miles on horseback in a snowstorm and manly young men learned to climb by worshiping manly older men and nobody ever had a climbing accident because gyms hadn't been invented yet to corrupt the young and everybody knew how to place pitons and not dirty the pants of American mountaineering by clipping bolts and...
Barf.
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Phil Olinick
Boulder climber
There
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May 28, 2011 - 03:33am PT
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@John Hansen: Huh? Could you please reference that detail? How could anyone place multiple pieces and not clip them?
@Ghost and Tahoe climber: Thoughtful comments, and we just met. Why don't you drink a few more and take a lot of quaaludes, or perhaps you prefer meth?
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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May 28, 2011 - 03:35am PT
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Yeah phil, you must be the most bad ass old school awesome guy ever. Wow. Such insight.
Double barf.
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 28, 2011 - 03:44am PT
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No, no, you don't understand. Back when he was a kid he had to climb the North Face of the Eiger every day just to go to school and then ride home forty miles on horseback in a snowstorm and manly young men learned to climb by worshiping manly older men and nobody ever had a climbing accident because gyms hadn't been invented yet to corrupt the young and everybody knew how to place pitons and not dirty the pants of American mountaineering by clipping bolts and...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
;-)
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Phil Olinick
Boulder climber
There
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May 28, 2011 - 04:38am PT
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@Goldberg: Do you have any idea why the pieces weren't on the rope?
@froodish: Thanks. Nice direction, but I really am pissed off about this, as should we all. So why should anyone want to spin this topic out of discussion? A bit over 20 years ago, nearly anyone who could climb 5.10 was a safe, competent partner. By the way, I was very much in favor of sport climbing (and still am, more or less), because finally we could push the limits. Trad climbing took too much hunting around for the right routes at your maximum level -- gear vacuums like the Valley aside.
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Phil Olinick
Boulder climber
There
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May 28, 2011 - 04:49am PT
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@Goldberg: You have a lot of expertise in the biner department, no? Or am I thinking of the wrong Goldberg?
You couldn't be referring to vibrating gates -- that couldn't apply to so many biners. Then the only other possibility... Oh sh#t, not that? But the black market biners I've heard about tested high enough that that wouldn't be an issue (not that I would use them).
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