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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
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dun-dun-----dun-dun-----dun-dun
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 23, 2011 - 05:35pm PT
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Read Kratman's book before you comment or decry and wail "woe is me." Tom is a retired U.S. Army lieutenant Colonel who has seen combat. His solution in his novel is elegant.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 23, 2011 - 05:41pm PT
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No Ron, you miss the point. You want a cost-effective solution? Simple, let shipping companies hire merc escorts and for sailboats organize weekly escorts when the transit trades are blowing. Other than that, Fattrad's solution is the only thing left on the table and that just stirs the pot to no good end. You can't police the ocean against small fishing vessels - it's impossible. It's a littoral police task, not an open water military one - again, you'll only get one out of ten thousand, there's another hundred where that one came from, and it will cost you an arm and a leg to be completely ineffective.
Both Kratman and Lewis are clueless.
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Gene
climber
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Feb 23, 2011 - 05:48pm PT
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A ransom of $9,500,000 was paid to Somalis for one ship and crew. Pretty lucrative business.
In the case of the four who were recently killed, they had been travelling with other yachts along the designated passage that is patrolled by many navies – US, NATO, and Russian among others. They chose to part company with their group and suffered the consequences. Something went wrong with the pirates themselves since two were found dead when the yacht was boarded by the US Navy. Pirates don’t make money killing potential hostages.
As an aside, I delivered yachts around the South China Sea area back in the early 80s. I quit due to piracy in the area. I met some folks who were later pirated and killed off of VN, and some other folks who were pirated in Manilla Bay. Even back then common wisdom was not to sail west of Singapore into the Gulf of Thailand.
g
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Scooter Dinosaur
climber
this hole I've been digging
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Feb 23, 2011 - 06:00pm PT
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Couldn't help it...
Cartman: We drink and we pillage and we do what we please
we get all that we want for free
Cartman & Butters: We’ll kick your ass
then rape your lass
Somalian Pirates We
Cartman: So with a yo ho ho
Somalian Pirates: Yo.. ho.. ho..
Cartman: and with a ye he he
Somalian Pirates: Ye.. he.. he..
Cartman: We take to the African sea
We’ll brave the squalls and bust yer balls
Somalian Pirates We
Somalian Pirates: Somalian Pirates We
Everyone: We left our homes and we left our mothers
To go on a pillaging spree
We’ll cut off your ears
And break your toes
And make you drink our pee
And if you sail into our waters
You best hear this decree
We’ll take your boat
Set your ass afloat
A Somalian Pirate: Somalian Pirate We
Cartman: Nice
Cartman: With a yo ho ho
Everyone: Yo ho ho
Cartman: And a tricka-latee-do
Everyone: Tricka-latee-do
We’ll shoot you in the face with glee
Soamlian Pirates: Then we'll cut off your....
Cartman: Okay, okay lets stop there for a minute.
Remember on tricka-latee-do that’s a la-tee-do, okay?
I really need you guys too annunciate the la-tee.
So let’s go from, uh, bar 14.
We’ll pick up after the quarter rest.
Ike…
Everyone: Somalian Pirates We
Cartman: Better!
Cartman: With a yo ho ho
Everyone: Yo ho ho
Cartman: And a tricka-latee-do
Everyone: Tricka-latee-do
We’ll shoot you in the face with glee
Then we’ll cut off your c*#k
And feed it to our croc
Ike: Somalian, Pirates, We
Everyone: Somal-ian Pi-rates Weeee
Cartman: Somalian Pirates Wuuhh
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 23, 2011 - 06:44pm PT
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So the question must be "Do I mind taking it in the butt?"
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Feb 23, 2011 - 06:50pm PT
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Piton Ron said Do you really think we can buy them off with some social improvement? Educate them to the error of their ways?
This is how it works in the REAL WORLD.
Teach people who NOT to fuk with! THAT will educate them.
Yeah if only people would be really tough and mean to them they would straighten up. I'm sure the problem was probably that they didn't grow up in a harsh, life threatening environment. Shoot a few of their friends and I bet they'll run back to land and enroll in community college pronto. Or maybe take one of the plethora of Somali jobs providing below subsistence level incomes, since dying slowly of starvation/disease is obviously a better choice than risking getting shot while making serious cash.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Feb 23, 2011 - 06:52pm PT
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Justification for nation building in Iraq from Bush: "They want what we have"
Yes, the entire middle east just wants to get a Sharper Image catalog in the mail!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:16pm PT
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Or maybe take one of the plethora of Somali jobs providing below subsistence level incomes, since dying slowly of starvation/disease is obviously a better choice than risking getting shot while making serious cash.
So you want to do some more nation-building?
Also, do 'inner-city youths' resort to drugs and violence because the world was mean to them, or they're just lazy and want quick-pleasure/quick-money? Are they just poor 'victims'?
Dingus, the parallels to the Barbary wars are pretty similar. They were protecting shipping lanes for American ships and products. The goods have changed, but not much else.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:18pm PT
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So the question must be "Do I mind taking it in the butt?"
The question is what are you prepared to do to stop taking it in the butt. Blue water naval activity will simply cost you 'up the wazzu' to still have it up your butt, but I suppose feeling good about it.
The two solutions I outlined above are the only realistic ways of dealing as effectively as possible with the problem. The only other means would be to establish two major UN / GCC coast guard bases - probably in Adan and / or Djibouti which are the only harbors around (none exist on the Somali coast). That would likely require a minimum fleet of 60 littoral craft and all the support that entails as well as at least minimal air support out of Djibouti which has a [relatively] decent air field.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:21pm PT
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Yeah if only people would be really tough and mean to them they would straighten up. I'm sure the problem was probably that they didn't grow up in a harsh, life threatening environment. Shoot a few of their friends and I bet they'll run back to land and enroll in community college pronto. Or maybe take one of the plethora of Somali jobs providing below subsistence level incomes, since dying slowly of starvation/disease is obviously a better choice than risking getting shot while making serious cash.
Or maybe seek out softer targets.
Good enough.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:25pm PT
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healyje, I heard that the U.S. was talking to Yemen about a possible base on Socotra Island off the southern Yemeni coast. Maybe too far out, but maybe not.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:29pm PT
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Socotra isn't too far out - it's ideally situated - the problem is the lack of a harbor, any remotely adequate infrastructure, and the overall cost of maintaining a littoral fleet and it's support requirements from there.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:29pm PT
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Blue:
Inner city (blacks) just want quick and easy money, and so resort to crime.
They have no interest in working an honest job for a living.
We on the same page on this?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:31pm PT
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The U.S. ships were not formerly under the protection of England THEN OR NOW. (it was France, lol!)
I never said they were. LOL!!! whatever....
U.S. interests are the ships carry cargo bound for the U.S. Did Gaddafi ever declare war on the U.S. before murdering 270 people in Lockerbie? No. Should he be brought to justice for that, or just ignored because he never declared war on the U.S. and wasn't a direct threat to America?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:32pm PT
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dmt they are highly motivated thugs with little to lose. if your relative was priated and your daughter raped perhaps your tune would be different. hell, you the guy who wrote a letter to a climbing rag about guys creating noise in the park with a power drill and here you are dissin americans who dont like to see innocents killed? sh#t........
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Gene
climber
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:34pm PT
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There are well defined sea lanes around the Horn of Africa that are extensively patrolled by many navies to prevent piracy. I believe that the Maritime Security Patrol Area in the Gulf of Aden is a necessary and valid use of warships of the US and other navies.
I agree with DMT to the following extent. If a ship willfully strays from the flock and gets pirated, I see no reason to go Mayaguez about it.
g
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:34pm PT
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Pretty much, Norton. But I would say it ain't only blacks.
EDIT: Joe, good point about about Socotra but it may be worth the investment to help build the base. As you say, it costs mucho bugs to sail carrier fleets around. Having that base could save long-term money. Just put some of the newer Amphibious rigs out there with small support craft.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:38pm PT
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Do you know what an anology is, Dingus?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:43pm PT
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Nope, whyn't you break it down for me bro.
DMT
The point is that neither Ghaddafi or the Somali punks declared was on the U.S., but both have killed U.S. citizens abroad. And the Somalis threaten our shipping lanes there.
You appear to want to ignore this and say it ain't our problem. I would disagree.
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