The GOP is at War Against the Heart of America (OT)

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Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 22, 2011 - 03:54pm PT
stinkeye,

You're on the left and you don't believe the Republicans are biased, misinformed, anti-intellectual idiots? Clearly, my post was partially in jest but the consistent policy of the right the past 20 yrs. ago has been to omit or misrepresent facts when discussing or creating policy. For example, 'the American people elected us in the mid-term elections with a mandate to repeal the health care bill, etc., etc.'

In any event, attacking unions and the benefits they provide their members, regardless of the reason, is unfair as long as you permit other entities, like corporations, their lobbyists, tax breaks, lax regulation and other forms of corporate welfare that all contribute to the bottom line.

If we're looking to make incremental cuts to a budget, find some other means than providing a living wage to teachers, unless as I suggested earlier you want people to leave teaching altogether with its subsequent guarantee of a poorly educated populous.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 22, 2011 - 04:32pm PT
Ah, the good old days in America before retirement and pensions were invented.


I long for those days.

People either too old or too disabled to work would beg for food from neighbors and

lived in parks and under railroad bridges.


The good old days when people suffered and starved to death in America.


We don't need no Nanny State big government taking care of old people with such

big government Nanny State programs as Medicare and Social Security.

And forget about employer contributed "pension" plans.

That money should instead go toward our wonderful denmother CEO's annual bonus.



Did I mention I waited a long time in line at the DMV and have hated government ever since?



Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2011 - 04:33pm PT
What got us into this mess and what are the solutions?

Stop funding the Military-Industrial-Spy complex at unheard of and unreal levels. 500 Billion has been requested. Are you guys for real? WAR is not a business. It shouldn't be. Fund for defense, not Imperial immoral illegal Nation building purposes.

With the monies we spend on defense and other MIS complex purposes we could solve all our Nation's needs.

Reagan scaling back the tax on the Rich. Tax the rich at appropriate fair levels like before the Reagan era.

As the Good Book says, "For those who are given much, much is required."
We know they don't like this, but that is a very big reason they will not get to heaven. "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter into Heaven." In other words, the rich are very greedy. They don't have to be. I would like to see Billionaires with a conscience. Step-up. You can't take it to Heaven. Do good with it while you can.


Make Corporate America pay their fair share of the taxes. Stop going out of country to shelter your money. Bring back the jobs to America. Stop using slave labor to produce your product. You want to see what America will be like without the fair labor laws, and without the protection of the Unions will be like? Bangledesh or worse. Corporations love it when workers are held down as slaves. Corporations should want to do good for America. Do you love America or not? Make the product here, treat employees well. It shouldn't be just about profit but putting people to work, treating them fairly, and equitably, and making a great product. When you do, you have customers for life and a name brand that people are proud of. NAFTA doesn't help anyone but the rich Corporations.


Unions have made this country strong. Unions have made a strong middle class. Yes, I get it that the rich powerful elite would love to see Unions go the way of the Dotto Bird, so they can have ultimate power over the worker, hold down wages, worsen work conditions, have at will ability to hire and fire regardless of the law and their personal prejudices. These people use their power for abuse. It would destroy the country. Isn't that what they really want to do? Isn't this really a transfer of wealth to the rich powerful elit and screw the man?

Unions have benefited everyone in this country whether you are Union or not.

Union membership in the public sector has grown and has maintained whereas Union membership in the private sector has been desimated. Read the pdf study I gave a link to, to know the truth of the matter. Know why they did this. That is the very kinds of things that they do to destroy America. It is about money, power, and control. They want it all and don't intend to let you have any of it.

Pensions are good. You earned it. Social Security is good you earned it. You do know they want to take all that away also don't you?

My teacher pension through STRS is fair and managed correctly, as should all retirement and pension programs be. I will not get SS even though I worked many years in the private world before becoming a teacher. You will get that money, I will not. A thank you would be an appropriate response. Our teacher retirement through STRS is appropraite and fair. It is not extravegant by any means.

Teachers have due process, not tenure. So should you.



Fight for this country and what has made it great. It is being taken away from you and me. Do not let it happen. Stand up and be counted.







http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/dropping-the-ax-update-2009-03.pdf

Our findings provide significant support for the view that an important part of the decline in private-sector unionization rates (the unionization rate in the public sector has remained constant for three decades) is that aggressive—even illegal—employer behavior has undermined the ability of workers to create unions at their work places. The National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) penalties associated with illegal firings are small: back pay for illegally fired workers minus any earnings that workers had after they were fired. Current law has given employers a powerful anti-union strategy:
fire one or more prominent pro-union employees—typically workers most involved in organizing the union—with the hope of disrupting the internal workings of the organizing campaign, while intimidating the rest of the potential bargaining unit in advance of the NLRB-supervised election.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
Feb 22, 2011 - 04:36pm PT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Feb 22, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
Ah, the good old days in America before retirement and pensions were invented.

Norton...
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 22, 2011 - 04:46pm PT
Ah, you can always count on folks like corniss chopper and fatty (who, as a former LOA, probably has a generous public funded pension) for an intelligent reply.
the kid

Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
Feb 22, 2011 - 04:49pm PT
we all need to sacrifice to get the country healthy again. including those damn politicians- don't see them giving up the golden parachute health care they enjoy..or wall street and their mega bonuses..


GOP- they are the ones who after 9-11 went to war with Iraq, which was not paid for, was not on the budget and was supposed to be paid for with Iraqi oil. Where is that check? in the mail?
At Least OBAMA had the BALLS to put these two wars on the budget instead of hiding like GWB..

wall street broke the bank, the country and all the pensions that are now in dire need of refunding, because of greed... so look at the fat cats to pay for these losses, not the UNION WORKERS and all the other workers who are getting screwed..

This is a plan that has been pulled off perfectly to bring us down, and control us by rich corporate shills..
koch brothers and all the rest..
f those people. f the GOP.
Go UNION!
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
Feb 22, 2011 - 05:21pm PT
The Unions have lost this fight. Its all over but the shouting.

But today's Liberal cannot seem to grasp the US's dire economic situation.

Try this:
Tell us what part of 'the United States is broke' don't you understand?

We can't afford to hand out overly generous benefits to public sector unions anymore.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Feb 22, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
If Obama had balls he would pull all troops from Iraq. & at least start the removal of troops around the world, like Germany. & he would go after the banks & energy companies that are bleeding this country to death. Not to mention the industrial war machine that over charges for everything & under performs on everything.
Our soldiers have fought & died so Halliburton & many others could make billions of $.
It's so easy to blame workers for management's failure. We are in a major failure of management.
The rep. & dem. parties & most business leader have miss managed the U.S. economy in almost every way.
The only thing that has keep this country on top is the American worker. The most productive workers in the world.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 22, 2011 - 05:45pm PT
Last week the total federal, state and local government debt exceeded the entire economic output of the nation.

The last time that happened was late in WWII. We grew out of it in a few short years due not only to our own productive capacity, but also because the rest of the worlds economy was wrecked.

We aren't going to grow or tax our way out of this one.

The spending has to stop.

The government, at all levels, has been spending like a college freshman party animal with dad's platinum card.


Dad, (the taxpayers) finally opened the bill.

You're cut off!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2011 - 06:59pm PT
You know it is very simple. Even you can do it. Just try posting to climbing threads only and ignore OT threads if you must. How hard is that? Obviously people want to talk about things that matter to them.

Climbing matters too. Very much so. If it was just OT threads only, I wouldn't be here. Climbing is something we all find common ground on. That's why we can argue like we do and still remain talking afterwards. Climbing binds us.


Now this is what is really going on in the background in Madison . . .






Koch brothers quietly open lobbying office in downtown Madison
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4743782
http://www.jconline.com/article/20110222/NEWS/102220319/Amid-Statehouse-walkout-governor-says-its-time-to-dump-labor-bill-update

JUDITH DAVIDOFF | The Capital Times | jdavidoff@madison.com madison.com | (32)

The billionaire brothers whose political action committee gave Gov. Scott Walker $43,000 and helped fund a multi-million-dollar attack ad campaign against his opponent during the 2010 gubernatorial election have quietly opened a lobbying office in Madison just off the Capitol Square. ("The lobbyists for Koch Companies Public Sector registered with the state on January 5, two days after Walker's inauguration.")

Charles and David Koch, who co-own Koch Industries Inc. and whose combined worth is estimated at $43 billion, have been recently tied by many media outlets to Walker's push to eliminate collective bargaining rights for public workers. The two have long backed conservative causes and groups including Americans for Prosperity, which organized the tea party rally Saturday in support of Walker’s plan to strip public workers of collective bargaining rights and recently launched the Stand with Scott Walker website.

........

"It's curious that the Kochs have apparently expanded their lobbying presence just as Walker was sworn into office and immediately before a budget was unveiled that would allow the executive branch unilateral power to sell off public utilities in this state in no-bid contracts," says Lisa Graves, executive director of the Center for Media and Democracy, a watchdog group that focuses on corporate power.

Koch Companies Public Sector LLC occupies a seventh-floor suite at 10 E. Doty St., one block off the Capitol Square. According to a tenant who requested anonymity, the lobbying group moved in two weeks before Walker was elected governor on November 2. When contacted for confirmation, Jeffrey Schoepke, the company's regional manager, said through a receptionist that he could not answer any questions and would have to forward them to other company officials.








High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Feb 22, 2011 - 07:02pm PT
That's why we can argue like we do and still remain talking afterwards. Climbing binds us.

That's probably the smartest thing the OP's ever said on supertopo.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 22, 2011 - 08:49pm PT
When you graduating from the eighth grade, Jeff?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Feb 22, 2011 - 08:51pm PT
Norton,

I tried trolling you two pages back and you didn't take the bait, how come?


.....

EDIT 6:48p... @ Norton...

Hahaha...
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Feb 22, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
fatrad = hitler
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Feb 22, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
Fathead: A food (good?) part of the problem is the actuarial table, my father has been collecting his government pension for eight years longer than expected.

Which, as you know very well, simply means some other pensioner collected for eight years less than expected. Actuaries are a lot smarter than you, although sometimes that's not saying a lot.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 22, 2011 - 09:32pm PT
Fructose, yes dear?


edit: sorry for delay, dropped a roach down my crotch in the car, spread mass panic


FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Feb 22, 2011 - 09:34pm PT
They can laugh all they want your words prove my point.
Lots of jews laughed in 1931- what did it get them.
Many of them gave money to the nazi party to eliminate the communists - again what did it get them.
If you think the leadership of the gop is going to help you or anyone except big money you are blind in one eye & can not see out of the other.
I don't know why I waste my time on you - I am a capitalist. You claim to be one - but i don't think you know what a capitalist is.
Anyone that tools another and brags about it is a fool & one step from being a nazi.
Tooling people are what nazi do.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Feb 22, 2011 - 09:46pm PT
If you knew even basic economics you would know that ins. co. invest the money paid in to them & the amount you pay in has less to do with the pay out then their profits on the investments.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 22, 2011 - 10:17pm PT
Dumb fuk
Messages 61 - 80 of total 190 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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