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Hootervillian
climber
high ground, twix the carson forks
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why don't you two look through the posts on these three threads and figure out who was asking questions and providing reference and who was judging, labeling and contradicting themselves.
lois your sole platform for labeling others haters and irrational is a conspiracy theory, do you realize that?
I am not prepared to say which is the case in this instance.
why let it stop you now?
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WoodyS
Trad climber
Riverside
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Lois may be too nice to state the obvious vis a vis the relevant pattern. It's the same pattern one would quickly spot if you were to spend a night in a camp among the homeless. In particular, the ones that talk to themselves.
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Hootervillian
climber
high ground, twix the carson forks
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What I am trying to say is that I simply don't know which side of this issue is correct.
you might have tried that approach before you called others haters for asking questions and sharing reference.
homeless=crazy? WoodyS thanks for solidifying the point.
and as for pattern recognition Lois, you haven't got my name right yet.
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Hootervillian
climber
high ground, twix the carson forks
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I referred to individuals as being "Bush-haters" - that is for certain. That many persons here hate Bush, is no secret.... Such is a well established fact here
Lois
a concept as volatile as hate is usually reserved to illicit a response. introducing and labeling individuals with such a mindset is irresponsible and reprehensible. positioning yourself to lay that label on anyone is exactly the behavior David outlined in his first paragraph up thread.
no secret, for certain, well established fact... if you say so......
....we will just have to see how it all unfolds. Time will tell.
can't stay still on a moving train lois.
and i guess i can assume you mean to call me a villain from now on.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2006 - 02:45am PT
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Rather than go off on a rant, I'd like to request that Lois and Hootervillain delete their post above that don't discuss the facts or issue but once again delve into the bandwidth wasting subject of Lois, her epistimology, and posting style.
There are links to serious analysis by full professors in major universities above. We could talk about facts and alledged facts.
But since Lois has already stated that she doesn't take the net and these discussions seriously, and doesn't have the time to read about the evidence, let just ignore any statements that she makes that don't address the subject.
Those who have the time to earnestly follow this grave issue shouldn't be distracted into sideways discussions that we've had a hundred times with those who can't be bothered to learn about what they're writing about.
I'll be happy to delete this post if the mess above gets cleaned up. Let's look at questions and facts, not hating or prejudice. There is plenty of data to chew
Peace
karl
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Hootervillian
climber
high ground, twix the carson forks
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fair enough Karl, but i'm not in the habit of deleting posts. i read everything everybody has to say. relevence tends to be a sliding scale; exceptionally difficult to impose a cut-off.
in my mind the value of 'thick description' includes anything and everything a poster wants to provide.
let's name it after we eat Rick Glasgow
more of how I feel.....
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=118368#msg118634
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2006 - 01:26pm PT
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I accept your rational Hootervillian. It just seems that engaging Lois this way leads to a predictable waste of bandwidth.
Lois, the reason your contribution is no contribution is because you're just making assumptions and blowing steam without examining the meat of what anyone else is really saying. You haven't examined the links like the last one Healyje posted where full professors made arguments on data not political bias. I asked you one question five times and you only dodged it.
It's like you were posting in a forum where concerned people had posted data to suggest that Merck had withheld data that showed that Vioxx led to heart problems. Instead of at least looking at the data, you started posting stuff like:
"I'm sure a big company like Merck would never withhold that data because they are a big company that would be exposed to a liability. You guys must be a biased because you read Depak Chopra books and don't like Western Medicine."
Go talk about nothing somewhere else or get with the program and read the links or become a troll and at least entertain us. Alternatively, share the knowledge that you do have when it's appropriate. I thought you were short on time? Why don't you realize you're addicted and limit your contributions to where they might actually be contributions? There are things you do know and can share to everyone's benefit.
Peace
karl
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WBraun
climber
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LOL, hahahahah ......... too funny.
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Hootervillian
climber
high ground, twix the carson forks
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I accept your rational Hootervillian. It just seems that engaging Lois this way leads to a predictable waste of bandwidth.
i seldom disagree with your positions Karl but i don't find trying to help Lois join the cause a waste. that's exactly what this bandwith is for and why i spend my time here.
if my methods are suspect, fair enough, but i'm sincere.
and if not her, whom?
considering the bandwith used for, versus the relevence of, a couple of bolts in a exfoliating granite dome in the grand scheme of things- i can live with it.
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WBraun
climber
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Nice, .... Hooter
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2006 - 07:40pm PT
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Yeah, Yeah, You guys are right. I just got frustrated. I acknowledge that I see Lois's views changing a bit. It may indeed be worth it to go in baby steps and I've attempted it myself. Accept my apologies please.
Then answer my Northwoods question. The Reichstag question as well. Should I post it again? You don't have to read more than one page to get your basic info
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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Karl
I think you might want to give it a break for a while and come up with a new strategy.
Example
Here people are like coal miners,
There was a preacher that said that hell had awaited someone if they didn't accept the shelter of Jesus was a terrible place, dark, dank, cold, and wet. He said, No one would want to go there, but all of the coal miners were thinking, Well, if that's hell, where are we? We're already in hell. It doesn't sound very fearful to us.
Next strategy
There is no TV there, oh sh-it they thought, we're hosed.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2006 - 08:04pm PT
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I might as well toss this in then:
I had the most vivid dream last night. I was sitting next to an old friend. We worked very closely together in Yosemite. He was my assistant but also a close buddy. Hadn't seen him in years. It was such a lifelike dream only my friend was a little bit pale and blank looking.
I asked him what he'd been up to. He said "I'm dead don't you remember?" Then it flashed on me that he went down with the towers. Hippy gone accountant! I said "Sorry man" and can't remember the rest.
Wrote a tribute to him that was read at his funeral. It's on this memorial page if somebody gets tired of the melting point of steel
http://www.sierratel.com/wawonamoon/bohan.html
Peace
karl
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WBraun
climber
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I read it Karl, it's very nice, you have a wonderful good heart.
Peace to you brother ....
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2006 - 08:23pm PT
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Get back on topic Werner, you're wasting bandwidth!
Peace back at you
Karl
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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I opened that link, Karl, and your friend's eyes just pierced through all the BS around "9/11* like lasers. Thoughts of all the people I saw that day. So many images, from "my" firefighter and the look in his eyes as he hung his head out the side of the truck, going down 5th Ave. A look of fear, disbelief and conviction that he would go in, and do his job, to the vacant eyes of the masses as they walked uptown, a grey powdery cloud softening the air.
What a horrible day that was.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2006 - 03:34pm PT
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If all this is true, or even is a fair portion of it is true, then the adminstration couldn't very well afford to give up control and get indicted for treason or war crimes down the road.
Let's hope the country keeps as much freedom and democracy as we have, or had.
Peace
Karl
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 21, 2006 - 03:52pm PT
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A lot of "evidence" seems to be:
Terrorists could not have committed the hijackings for reasons A, B, and C. Therefore, the government MUST have been the bad guys.
So where is the "evidence" FOR the government doing something bad? Oh yeah, there's a cover up hiding the "evidence." This is why conspiracy theories never die.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2006 - 04:28pm PT
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Dirtbag
There are dozens of causes for concern and mountains of evidence that should be accounted for. Some of it may be bogus disinformation or conspiracy theory, but much needs to be addressed.
Bush has been docmented telling plain and boldfaced lies about 9-11 (like that he saw coverage of the first plane hitting the tower before he read my pet goat to the kids) Lots of things don't add up like how those folks made cell phone calls from the highjacked plane. Lots of evidence including forensic evidence and FAA tapes have been destroyed or hidden. Why?
Much has been discussed in this thread and the ones linked to it. The fact that you summarized the case so glibbly and inaccurately shows that you didn't read much if any, so why post up? Go back to sleep or tell us something specific.
Peace
Karl
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woodcraft
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Mar 23, 2006 - 12:44am PT
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I think that the question of building #7 is the most accessable entry point for those in denial. Think about it: Not hit by a plane... collapsed at freefall speed for no apparent reason... must have been pre- arranged... couldn't have been done by plane hijackers... must be an inside job... Oh yeah, that was similar how the twin towers went down...
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