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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:21pm PT
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Seems to be....
Amongst teabaggers.
Hey, man, tea-baggin' is going mainstream too!!!! Get on board, Matt!
You wanna be hip too, dontcha?
Mwwwwwaaaaa!!!!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:25pm PT
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Providing an Analysis
Of course, most of these documents will be made public regardless of what The Times decides. WikiLeaks has shared the entire archive of secret cables with at least four European publications, has promised country-specific documents to many other news outlets, and has said it plans to ultimately post its trove online. For The Times to ignore this material would be to deny its own readers the careful reporting and thoughtful analysis they expect when this kind of information becomes public.
But the more important reason to publish these articles is that the cables tell the unvarnished story of how the government makes its biggest decisions, the decisions that cost the country most heavily in lives and money. They shed light on the motivations — and, in some cases, duplicity — of allies on the receiving end of American courtship and foreign aid. They illuminate the diplomacy surrounding two current wars and several countries, like Pakistan and Yemen, where American military involvement is growing. As daunting as it is to publish such material over official objections, it would be presumptuous to conclude that Americans have no right to know what is being done in their name.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29editornote.html?_r=1
Remember, they work for us, all US citizens. We do indeed have a right to know what is being done in our name.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:26pm PT
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It's a bit reminiscent of when the Bolsheviks took power in Russia in 1917, and over the next few years published a lot of secret treaties and correspondence, which greatly embarrassed most other countries. Documents that demonstrated duplicity, dishonesty and incompetence.
As someone noted upthread, the documents that have now been released were at least nominally accessible to 3 million Americans - for the most part they were hardly secrets. And the news media organizations releasing them have often proven more trustworthy and to have better judgment than their governments, and have the resources to properly assess the documents for real 'national security' implications. The New York Times, The Guardian and similar papers are heavyweights, and have demonstrated accountability.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:30pm PT
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So.....
What are all you anti-government torture cheerleaders really afraid of?
Seditious rats in the gov't. We entrust certain people with intel. These people have to pass gnarly background checks and clearances. If they betray the gov't they're guilty of sedition at best, maybe treason at worst.
But I blame the gov't too. How do they allow this sh#t to happen?
EDIT:
Remember, they work for us, all US citizens. We do indeed have a right to know what is being done in our name.
You naive fool.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:32pm PT
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Tell me, genius.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:33pm PT
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Klimmer, your belief in the rightness of the leaks is about you and the many other people who feel as you do. The reason that Wikileaks published all of this is because of you. So you need to bear up and take the responsibility for creating the righteous demand for uncensored State Department cables.
I have a real practical objection to someone giving all of this to Wikileaks. Condi Rice, under Bush, and Hillary Clinton, under Obama, are responsible for the State Department. They are held accountable for what they do to the President and, ultimately to all of us. The private comments made by other world leaders or the comments of State Department staff should not be for public consumption.
You are confusing the need for transparency for good governance and the need for an unfretted press to hold politicians to account with the need to hold private conversation with foreign leaders in confidence.
I just read that the one of the cables describes the President of South Korean giving some sort of assurances to the Chinese that South Korea would provide financial support if the North Korean government collapses. I guess we will see soon enough how the Kims respond to their allies having private conversations with their enemy on how to take them out.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:36pm PT
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You are confusing the need for transparency for good governance and the need for an unfretted press to hold politicians with the need to hold private conversation with foreign leaders in confidence.
Yeah, but people like Klimmer will never get that....
EDIT: You tell me genius!!!! You posed the solution!
I'm saying that Afghan civis were identified and potentially targeted because of these asshats. We had informants that will no longer talk because of this.
The word is out. DON'T TALK TO U.S. INTEL AGENTS< THEY CAN'T BE TRUSTED!!!!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:39pm PT
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See my edit, Einstein^^^^^
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:42pm PT
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Time for some "wet work".
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
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Whom would you charge with sedition and/or treason?
The rat that passed the intel to the commie Aussie.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:49pm PT
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Can we be f*#king frank here???
Michael Behena was charged with muder for shooting a prisoner who attacked him. He is sitting in Leavenworth doing 15 years pending appeals.
And some rat commie passes intel to some other piece of f*#king sh#t Aussie exposing valuable intel isn't gonna face at least the same charges????
You people are sick.
Look up Michal Behenna and donate to his legal fund.
http://www.defendmichael.com/
Oh, and most most other Marines accused by our pussiffied gov't have been let go too. Look up Haditha and Chessani.
F*#king bullshit how we try our own soldiers more harshly than the enemy. AND OUR SOLDIERS'S ALWAYS GET OFF.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:52pm PT
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I just read that the one of the cables describes the President of South Korean giving some sort of assurances to the Chinese that South Korea would provide financial support if the North Korean government collapses. Has there ever been any question that if/when North Korea collapses, South Korea and China will be left to deal with the mess, and pay for most reconstruction?
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 28, 2010 - 10:57pm PT
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No, that is why China props them up. They realize the liability.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:00pm PT
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What you all seem to be missing is that many large well known international MSM newspapers have had these diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks for sometime prior to publishing publicly.
They even contacted the DoD/Pentagon to discuss them.
They know that the disclosures show and prove unethical and/or illegal behavior or worse, by diplomats working for the US and doing their jobs in our name.
Yes, we do have a right to know what is done in our name. It is about being ethical and honest, and doing your job for our interests. Doesn't require illegal or unethical behavior. If it does, then we shouldn't be doing it.
No government worker should be embarrassed by the revelation of emails or other communication while doing their job. We can easily tell the difference between private and personal, verses on the job matters. We should all conduct ourselves when we do our jobs, and communicate as though the public is reading the email or witnessing the communication publicly.
Unethical, illegal acts or behavior of any kind shouldn't be tolerated. They work for the citizens of the United States, from the President on down, and should conduct themselves appropriately.
They are trying to do unethical acts and illegal behavior under the cover of State Secrets. That is what this is about.
AND THAT IS WRONG.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:01pm PT
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F*#king bullshit how we try our own soldiers more harshly than the enemy.
Lets see.. We bomb the sh#t out of whole countries, but that is treating them easier. We invade countries that did not attack us, but that is treating them easier then our own troops. Okay..
Should all soldiers get a free pass to do whatever they want?
This guy disobeyed direct orders which led directly to the death of his prisoner. They don't even know if they had the right guy, but he is dead.
Did you learn nothing from Gitmo? The US armies intelligence is not always infallible. Would you have us sink to our enemies level?
Remember, we invaded Iraq on faulty intelligence. We pretend that we are doing good, but that doesn't mean that everyone in that country thinks that we are. Would you stand by and let some foreign country invade the US?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:03pm PT
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Moosie, you haven't read the details of case, obviously.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:04pm PT
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Lets see.. We bomb the sh#t out of whole countries, but that is treating them easier. We invade countries that did not attack us,
You're out of your league here, dude.....
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:09pm PT
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The details of the case say that he killed the prisoner. His contention is that the prisoner attacked him.
Uh.. after he threatened to kill the prisoner. After he cut the prisoners clothes off with a knife. Then cut his handcuffs. Even if the prisoner attacked him, he was likely scared out of his mind.
Michael Behenna screwed up. His prisoner ended up dead. He was fully armed. So was his sargeant. They are Airborn and you expect me to believe that they were really afraid of an unarmed prisoner who they dragged under a bridge and said they would kill.
Mercy Blue. His own troops testified against him.
Which part did I not understand? That he was an American and should get a break just because he was an American?
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
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No, Moosie's focusing on the DOD. The information is also from the State Dept. Some would argue that State has been bad for the U.S. ever since the Chinese supposedly infiltrated that group. The fact that they're being exposed is really interesting. Nothing is sacred anymore.
What do other countries do when such subterfuge occurs? Total crush and suppression of such players? Why only the U.S.? Are there no traitors in other countries? Could we have stopped this release through illegal means?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:14pm PT
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Uh.. after he threatened to kill the prisoner. After he cut the prisoners clothes off with a knife. Then cut his handcuffs. Even if the prisoner attacked him, he was likely scared out of his mind.
Also lacking in the evidence is the FACT of the trajectory of the rounds. Why was that omitted? A pro analyst said that the rounds were obviosly defensive fire.
My point is, who would you trust more? On their word?
You're really missing my point about sending troops into harms way and then prosecuting them on vague bullshit charges that he probably should have been commended for.
Think about it.
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