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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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To say that his decision will not make a difference is the very problem with society. If everyone adopts that logic, then nothing will ever change. Like in politics, very very few people will ever vote for a candidate who is not Dem or Rep. "I'll be throwing my vote away!" is the most common excuse I get. Then the same people bitch about how both of the parties are jacked up and it's just voting for the lesser of two evils.
I commend people who lead their lives by principle, not be what will or won't benefit them.
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dustonian
climber
RRG
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Coz is sounding like a sell out. Get back to making the shitty movies in La La!
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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From National Geographic...
But all those plastic bottles use a lot of fossil fuels and pollute the environment. In fact, Americans buy more bottled water than any other nation in the world, adding 29 billion water bottles a year to the problem. In order to make all these bottles, manufactueres use 17 million barrels of crude oil. That’s enough oil to keep a million cars going for twelve months.
A few recent facts:
Producing the bottles for American consumption required the equivalent of more than 17 million barrels of oil, not including the energy for transportation.
Bottling water produced more than 2.5 million tons of carbon dioxide.
And here is the one I love,
It took 3 liters of water to produce 1 liter of bottled water
There are billions of people on this planet who lack clean, safe drinking water. More than 2 million die from water borne diseases every year. And we are using 3X water to make 1X water in nice little plastic containers...
Cheers to Ken!
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Do you really think turning down 20,000 dollars is going to change anything.
I do.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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The lack of $20,000 dollars certainly isn't going to keep all of us from showing up.
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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Ken - Wise choice.
That's a faustian bargain that is not worth it. I got my own re-usable water container.
Thanks Souza - netflixing Flow.
BEFORE COZ EDIT: This guy is a nut
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Well- I see your point Coz, but the fleece jacket company hasn't thrown down a $20,000 offer. The water bottle company did and Ken made his decision. The event will go on without it.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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My only point is why get all uppity over water bottles and not fleece jackets. Coz has a point - everything we do has an impact, whether we're aware of or admit it or not. For example, if we look at the total footprint of the FaceLift. That is, the impact of everything that's done in relation to the Facelift that wouldn't be done otherwise. Travel, purchases, infrastructure, prizes... Pretty hard to accurately measure, given that much of it might be done in any case, but possibly quite significant. It may make more environmental sense for each of us to just donate a few hundred dollars to the YCA, instead of spending the money on going to the FaceLift to pick up cigarette butts in places that are sometimes rather highly impacted by humans anyway. (Devil's advocate argument.)
A donation by the water bottle company of some skids of its product may seem rather small, in the total context. The difference to me is that bottled water is an unnecessary product, certainly in the context of Yosemite and in the context of much of the US and Canada. It's an artificial market - very few truly need the stuff. Whereas for products like fleece jackets, they or something similar really are a need, at least in most of North America.
Apart from the net environmental effects of the FaceLift, and its economics, we also can't forget the other values that it represents. (Does economics have values?) Symbolism is very important, whether in relation to getting a lot of people together to help clean up an iconic place, or taking care with sponsorships.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Some jerk litterbug will probably litter more pounds of water bottle material than pounds of fleece jacket material in his/her life. Heck, I think that many smokers litter more than their own body weight in butts in a single year.
Good job rejecting the bottled water company. Even if it is done just on principal, it is a good thing.
Dave
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Ken - you made the right call, thanks!
Chris Jordan has been creating works of art illustrating the sheer volume of the waste we produce. Do the world a favor and spend some time on his site. Running the Numbers 1 and 2 are eye opening and mind blowing. His Midway study focuses on dead baby albatrosses killed by their mothers feeding them small plastic debris from the neighboring plastic patch in the Pacific.
From ChrisJordan.com
Running the Numbers:
Depicts two million plastic beverage bottles, the number used in the US every five minutes (5' x 10' print):
Detail at actual size:
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Thank-you Ken, nuff said.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
The great white north, eh?
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Good on ya Ken!
I'm glad that you are keeping FaceLift clean of the conflict of interest. I'd hate to see thousands of corporate-branded water bottles being picked up all over the Park. What message would that send?!
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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You definitely made the correct choice, Ken. To accept the money would be worse than the McDonalds sponsorship of the Olympics.
Just this discussion is having a positive effect. Every millimeter in the right direction counts.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
The great white north, eh?
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The biggest reason to get uppity about plastic bottles and not fleece jackets is that most people don't wear their fleece jacket once and dispose of it (whether by recycling, or trashing, or tossing on the ground). The fleece jacket is not a 'consumable' product; it is reusable with an extended life span. Water bottles are designed as single use product.
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Forest
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Great decision, Ken. I wholeheartedly support it.
Lynne, I'm generally very anti-bottled water, but there are exceptions. Road trips can be one of those. I'll bring a big 7 gallon container if we're camping, but if it's just a few hours drive and there's not room or something, I'll occasionally pick up a bottle. Like anything, it's okay in moderation. It's when it becomes a regular part of your consumption habits that it's a problem.
The big problem for me with bottled water (besides the obvious transportation issues) is the shear number of bottles it generates. Huge huge numbers, the vast majority of which end up in a land fill somewhere. it's crazy. A brita and a re-usable bottle is a much much better solution 98% of the time.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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I think disposable water bottles have a use, but a very limited one. I currently have two bottles in my car, both of which have been reused many times. Living in the park, I run into people occasionally who need water. Its great to have something that I can give them that I don't need back. So there are uses. But How we currently use them is insane. I think its great that Ken drew a line. I support it.
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WBraun
climber
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Damn tree hugging hypocrites.
Stop eating meat and shut down the the slaughterhouses and you'll accomplish 1 billion times more than some stupid plastic bottles.
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reddirt
climber
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one issue at a time....
ihateplastic.... this convo brings a whole new connotation to you handle.
Barbarian, right on.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Most people don't know RO systems suck in terms of wasting water... or maybe they do.
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Household reverse osmosis units use a lot of water because they have low back pressure. As a result, they recover only 5 to 15 percent of the water entering the system. The remainder is discharged as waste water. Because waste water carries with it the rejected contaminants, methods to recover this water are not practical for household systems. Wastewater is typically connected to the house drains and will add to the load on the household septic system. An RO unit delivering 5 gallons of treated water per day may discharge 40 to 90 gallons of wastewater per day to the septic system.
Large-scale industrial/municipal systems have a production efficiency closer to 48%, because they can generate the high pressure needed for more efficient RO filtration.
Another downside to reverse osmosis as a method of purifying drinking water is the removal of healthy, naturally occurring minerals in water. The membrane of a reverse osmosis system is impermeable to natural trace minerals, which offer health advantages for the body. Water which has been stripped of these trace minerals does not offer these advantages.
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