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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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nick d, you really don't know too much. You think you do though, but that is a different thing than really knowing. Some of these other guys, RBD, TGT, they KNOW. More than me about such things. But certainly, most assuredly and definatly, significantly much more than you.
I don't justify someone killing a grizzly, that's for the park folks to look at, and it if was charging the couple and got the shots in the front, too f*ing bad. If it has rear end entry wounds, press charges and prosecute the guy. You and the rest of us barely know jack sh#t about what happened based on a news story. you think you know what was inside the guys head, but you don't know jack sh#t about him or about that. Like Dane said: guy should have had bear spray, but if it comes down to a dead Grizzly bear or a dead person I'm rooting for the person every damn time. Even if it was your most loved and cherished family member.
Consider that.
I'm a gun owner, don't carry one in the city or the woods. In Grizzly country I'd have bear spray and most likely still be hiding behind Piton Ron and RBD: who are excellent marksmen and would both most likely have a gun.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2010 - 06:54pm PT
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Maybe you could just be smart enough not to go. Like I said not everyone belongs everywhere.
My central theme was just that, not one person has made a considered intelligent answer to that.
Also, who cares what someone else knows about guns? And what does that have to do with anything I stated or asked?
Oh, nothing as it turns out!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Ummm, back to my original point on your original point, you still don't really know anything about either of these folks but your mouth is still flapping with vacuous words making you think that you do.
Re: your post below:
Charged the woman? Sure I guess so, but let me offer a more likely scenario: "Well we were walking and I saw a bear, so I thought, What a great opportunity to shoot my gun! I sure as heck didn't come here to see animals, except as targets for my combat ready, 9 shot .45.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2010 - 07:27pm PT
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Still can't answer my basic statement?
By the way, I am certainly older than you are, no police record. Most smart guys don't.
I am home sick today, but I'm guessing you are unemployed? If not, how do you have the time to post all day long?
Also werent you bragging about dragging a trailer into a wilderness area? Kinda makes me think you dont give a sh*t about wilderness.
I'm sure that John Muir would rather that someone like me was stewarding his precious woods. Why, because they are precious to me as well.
Sorry a lot of folks here seem to regard our woods as a disposable commodity.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2010 - 08:50pm PT
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I wouldn't hold a police record against you, although I wish the police would when it comes to holding a firearm license.
But I guess that's a central tenent ofthe whole gun debate, huh.
No one is too stupid, too criminally minded, even too criminally insane to disqualify them from gun ownership.
Glad you've got a sense of belonging!
As too all the charges listed, well I'm sorry you cannot figure out how to keep your head down.
Feel free to belittle my experiences, but I've had my share. If it makes you feel good then I am glad to be of help. I was just thinking that not a one of my friends has a police record, but of course they are all smart dudes.
Sorry you are so sensitive about being unemployed, but I'm sure you suck all the welfare the system can give you. I don't mind that either, I'm glad to do my part for society.
Just sayin, no thanks are neccessary good buddy!
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2010 - 09:26pm PT
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Have you ever stood on top of Shiprock? Or were you too busy running your mouth at the wrong guy and you only got as far as the Shiprock drunk tank?
Like I said, smart enough to do sh*t and get away with it!
I notice you aren't too eager to discuss your welfare take, but if it makes you ashamed you should keep it to yourself. Help preserve your self esteem.
I've known some guys like you that could not keep their mouth shut when it was appropriate. Not the kinda guys you want to do any kind of adventure with, because they are going to f*ck up your trip somehow.
Like I said, none of my friends have jail records. Maybe thats not a coincidence, eh.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2010 - 09:39pm PT
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Overheard at the base of the Jam Crack after a tragic firearm incident:
"I tell that you that guy with the rack of cams was coming right at me!"
Definately the funniest thing on this thread! Way to go Fat Dad!!!!
It is fun to goad Roxy, I have to admit. But, ultimately he just lacks that intellectual edge that it would take to be really satisfying. I sense a lie about your welfare status, "single men can't get paid". Then you mention your wife. The first statement is almost certainly wrong, but what do I know? Especially since I'm not a welfare queen like yourself.
edit: I did not mean to confuse you changing up my vernacular as far as your record goes. I guess since I don't have either they seem about the same to me. So, sorry again convict!
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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I guess it was just that bear's time, eh?
At least he died doing something he loved.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2010 - 10:00pm PT
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Anyway, back to my original posit! If you have to carry a gun to go to a national park you shouldn't go!
I wish the bear had eaten those two because I am against everything they stand for: ie...carrying a gun in a park and using it to kill animals.
I just got your drift Rox, I just realized the reason you identify me as a superstud is that I'm not afraid to go outside without a gun. Guess that does make you seem like a pus*y in comparison. Sorry about that.
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DanaB
climber
Philadelphia
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But it's their back yard, not ours.
Says who? They have a deed?
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Hey Nick D(umbass)...guess what?
The beauty of the new law is that it doesn't matter what you think.
It's the law...get over it.
and no way do you have an IQ of 150! Hahaha! Nice try.
Anyone who reads your posts can easily tell your IQ is closer to 100.
With gems like....
“Still can't answer my basic statement?”
“Maybe you could just be smart enough not to go. Like I said not everyone belongs everywhere.”
“Thanks for recognizing my awesome studness!”
“Pretty sure no animal can outwit me and I look around a lot.”
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2010 - 11:41pm PT
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Kind of amazing to me that so many on here have such anti-wilderness feelings.
I think that if John Muir were alive now he'd have some pretty harsh words for you.
He is my idea of a real stud! Explored the range of light on foot, as opposed to those here that moan up a storm because there aren't enough roads.
He also was a man of tremendous political will, helping preserve everything you guys seem determined to tear up.
Oh well, I guess if you are super selfish it doesn't matter if wild land does not exist past your time.
edit: Right on Shack, team up with Rox! Team Mental Midget Ho!!!
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
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Thanks STZZO! But these guys don't bother me, its fun to goad away and see what passes for logic.
Also thanks for getting it, and realizing what an incredibly fragile resource we have. I hope it can be carried on in perpetuity, but I have my doubts.
If you cant go to a park without carrying a gun you do not belong. Please stay home instead of fvcking up our most precious resources.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Looking at it another way, most owners of handguns have neither the training or experience to be reasonably sure of hitting and disabling or killing an attacking animal (deer, moose, bear, cougar), even at relatively short range. Their guns are also not likely to be up to the job - the calibre of a typical handgun won't have much impact. On the other hand, it doesn't take any experience or training to successfully use bear spray. All you have to do is remember to have it, take it out, pull the pin, and point it in the general direction when the animal is a few m away - handgun distance, that is. And the stuff works.
Pepper spray is a much better bet than a gun.
Assuming of course that you know the animal is truly attacking, and indeed that it's there. Cougars often attack without warning from behind, in which case nothing will do much good.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2010 - 12:38am PT
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Agree with you on Cougars, but there is a good way to safeguard yourself.
As you noted a gun does no good in a surprise attack.
Look around a lot and don't put yourself in a situation where you are just begging to be attacked, like leaning over to drink from a stream.
I heard my first cougar scream while I was camping by myself. I was a third grader and it was extremly frightening. It really drove home the danger and I'm very carefull at all times I think I am in cougar surveillence!
I realize that some of the attacks in California were precipitated by new developments that brought many who were not aware and mixed them with big cats. Some of those animals were probably pissed off about being disturbed and would attack people in broad daylight, no attempt to be stealthy.
Probably no defense against an animal like that, other than not mixing it up with them in their habitat.
Back to the dont go if you cant handle being there mantra!
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2010 - 12:41am PT
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My comment is:
"eated people"
So english is your second language and you still don't have a good handle on it?
edit: Sorry but writing stuff down that makes you sound stupid leads me to believe you are stupid. But I guess your smart enough to hang out in your trailer, blind drunk, waiting for your welfare. Really, thats an occupation that doesn't take much in the smarts dept. So good luck!
maybe you will be world champion welfare queen, I know I'm pulling for you!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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He'd fly through the air with the greatest of ease,
That daring young man on the flying trapeze.
His movements were graceful, all girls he could please.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Pepper spray is a much better bet than a gun.
I'd love to see the data, punk. (Clint's new line) :-)
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Looking at it another way, most owners of handguns have neither the training or experience to be reasonably sure of hitting and disabling or killing an attacking animal (deer, moose, bear, cougar), even at relatively short range. Their guns are also not likely to be up to the job - the calibre of a typical handgun won't have much impact. On the other hand, it doesn't take any experience or training to successfully use bear spray. All you have to do is remember to have it, take it out, pull the pin, and point it in the general direction when the animal is a few m away - handgun distance, that is. And the stuff works.
Pepper spray is a much better bet than a gun.
This is a very common misunderstanding of the actual facts.
Most handgun owners DO have experience operating and firing their guns...maybe not "official" training, but operating a gun and learning to aim are not complicated skills. Of course, reactions under duress and while under attack, are impossible to predict, whether you have a gun or spray. Where as someone who just goes out and buys a big ol' can of bear spray, sticks it in their pack and never tests it or practices with it at all is far more likely to be unprepared, panic, forget about the safety pin etc. while in that critical situation.
As far as "pointing in the general direction when the animal is a few meters away"...
first of all you actually need to hit the bear in the face, the general direction is not good enough..and a few meters away? in a typical suprise attack, you would be lucky to have those few meters.
I actually think bear spray is excellent for what most would consider a bear "encounter". For example, a grizzly trashing your camp or curious ones that get too close and act threatening etc. etc. but for most attacks,
they just don't do enough. A gun is the ultimate backup plan.
But which ever you choose, they both require some practice.
Even the guys that sell the bear spray, emphasize the need for repeated practice at quick draw and shoot from the hip techniques to be prepared for real life situations. It's misleading to say "pepper spray is way better than a gun"...you may like it better, but could you kill that grizzly with the pepper spray if you had to?
Check out what the Bear Spray guys have to say.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2010 - 01:47am PT
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What were you doing at the hotel?
Drug deal?
I can live with that!
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