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Fuzzywuzzy
climber
suspendedhappynation
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This is a good conversation. Thanks for participating!
It is complicated. I vacillate. I agree with Peter - in the big picture it seems rather presumptuous when considering eternity. I’ve shared and understand Scott’s situation, his post to the Koreans is compassionate. It feels coldhearted to restrict such an act.
I understand why we are compelled to leave memorials. It is about our emotions - working through the death of a friend. Is it becoming a popular trend? How does it effect others?
We are blessed with expansive tracts of “protected” land. If we decide to leave it free of signs of our passing (or others) there may be benefits. Our Mountain Culture is still in its infancy. Is it foolish to try and keep the canvas as clean as possible?
Is it an extension of free speech? Sometimes silence is golden. Norman Clyde didn’t return to place a plaque for the Starr family, but much later somebody decided to do so. Plaques, carvings, memorials - can it get out-of-hand? I’m hoping it doesn’t become routine.
The media sells fear, and overtime I can imagine grieving friends responding to a fabricated cultural guilt trip by littering the landscape. How about a Sand Mandala?
If you are going to erode the wilderness then this is trivial compared to summit registers, bear lockers etc. I recognize I’m hyper sensitive, for example, those LED lights that are popping up around campsites in the backcountry drive me crazy!
When the world looms larger we tend to feel smaller – less significant. I think that is healthy. We love having a route to ourselves, experiencing the “drift” of the land without “distractions.
Don’t we also feel vulnerable in the presence of memorials? What’s our emotional threshold? What’s the answer? Lets be discreet and keep the world as natural as possible.
As Cole Porter put it:
Oh, give me land, lots of land under starry skies above, Don't fence me in
Let me ride through the wide open country that I love, Don't fence me in
Let me be by myself in the evenin' breeze
And listen to the murmur of the cottonwood trees
Send me off forever but I ask you please, Don't fence me in
Just turn me loose, let me straddle my old saddle
Underneath the western skies
On my Cayuse, let me wander over yonder
Till I see the mountains rise
I want to ride to the ridge where the west commences
And gaze at the moon till I lose my senses
And I can't look at hovels and I can't stand fences
Don't fence me in
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Stunning post Tom! The principle "to leave no trace" is what we are trying to strive for obviously and which, had it been observed more frequently in our history many things would be better surely. And no question about it, the Korean monument as well as Scott's plaque are really poignant and obviously no big blow to nature; they are both thoroughly well intended. But it would be best if we don't have a whole lot them.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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seems like some innate drive is at work...
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Hey Fattrad you should have them Butt Phucking the North American Continent to really capture the essence of their illegal reign. I'll donate $2 for this cause, tax deductible off course....Maybe you can scribe Halliburton and the oil co.s names in the Black Diorite while you're there for a fee, of course.
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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I think everyone one looks for a clean fresh landscape i.e., one that is free of litter, signs and other traces of humanity when visiting a National Park or any wilderness area. (The one exception may be when one is lost.)
Most people travel to these places to escape the tedium of day to day life and the stains of city life. It is disturbing to believe you have escaped these reminders of our ever increasingly crowded world when stumbling across debris in the back country, trash on a stretch of beach or seeing litter along side a rural highway. Graffiti is another reminder of someone else's presence. To find someone's name or initials scrawled in a remote spot spoils our attempted escape.
To those that leave such markers it seems to be a benign attempt at eternity or a fleeting glimpse from the eyes of a conqueror.
A memorial might perhaps be looked at from another point of view; but I have always thought graveyards and tombstones to be a peculiar part of our vanity as humans.
As far as finding a remote spot that we can venture to and have high expectations of a completely natural environment...
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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Jul 20, 2015 - 11:20pm PT
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Bumping this thread to add, I was approached by I.C. Kang at the bridge this spring and he engaged me in a long discussion about the markings on ZM. 5 years after this thread was posted its still on his mind and he is very much concerned about how Korean climbers are perceived in the community.
Well, he already explained why they were put there, so I won't go into that. But I will say he was very adamant that we understand that in the Team Extreme Rider school, new climbers are taught Leave No Trace and clean climbing ethics that are the standard in Yosemite. And that carving anything in the rock is not acceptable. He could not speak for all Koreans obviously but he was speaking for Team Extreme Rider.
I have always had a personal gripe about finding Korean cigarette buts littered on the ground and stuck in cracks on the wall whenever I ended up climbing behind or after them. He said he understands and will continue to insist that their climbers remove all trash from the wall.
I have a lot of respect for I.C. He goes above and beyond trying to facilitate the TER climbers having a safe and successful time in Yosemite. And he's just a nice, funny guy. If you have the chance, say hi and get to know him a little.
Cheers
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