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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Some dumb f*#ks doubt Obama's citizenship--in such an environment, how am I supposed to prove mine.
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nita
Social climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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...Bluey,....Hijole!.... Thanks for reminding me to renew my ACLU membership...
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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8 beers or 14 today, blue?
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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That is why it is a U.S. holiday.
it's not a holiday. Nobody gets it off. It's a recognized day and that's about it. And the funny thing is we (USA) celebrate it about 100x more than people in Mexico.
It's another reason to drink (and it seems like Blue hasn't stopped since yesterday).
Edit: though to be fair I've taken only a short hiatus since yesterday - a coffee break ;-)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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"f*ck you, i've been through more sh*t than most people have been through in a lifetime."
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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It is BS that people that are against illegal immigration are racist. Sorry, but there is only so much money to go around. Mexico's corrupt government has failed their population. Does that mean the USA has to pick up the slack to the detriment of legal residents?
The Mexican government needs to step up to the plate. Not me. It is too bad these people are suffering, but my check book is barely enough for me, let alone bailing out the rest of the world.
Yeah, you guys sitting in a nice house and comfy pension plans have money to spare. I do not. Oh, by the way, do any of you see we are the only country dealing with this? Try being in Mexico without documentation. Or any other nation.
Hell, if you work for the government and have guaranteed employment and benefits, this is no big deal. But if you work in the private sector this is an incredible tax burden.
BURP!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I'm slowly amassing an army of Gifs
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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The Mexican government needs to step up to the plate. Not me. It is too bad these people are suffering, but my check book is barely enough for me, let alone bailing out the rest of the world.
Yeah man. It's the Mexican government's job to keep people from coming into our country. Why can't they control their people better.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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No, she's a US citizen visiting relatives in Arizona. Her family has owned that ranch since before Arizona was a gleam in its daddy's eye. If she's stopped for DWB, will she need to have her passport on her? How will she prove she's a citizen? How can I prove I'm a citizen? I can't. I have a birth certificate, but apparently, that doesn't prove it.
She won't need to prove her citizenship, neither will you or I or anyone for that matter. This bill is targeting known illegals in the state of Arizona and allowing Arizona to do something about it. Nobody is going to detain you and demand that you prove your citizenship. The state would get sued. But if you're a known illegal alien living in Arizona or are caught crossing the border, you better come up with a valid passport pronto. The only people who are going to be directly questioned and effected by this new law are those picked up attempting to cross the border and those who are arrested for other crimes and found to be in this country illegally.
Hooray for Arizona to be the first to finally grow some balls and do something about this serious threat to this country. Something needs to be done and whatever it is, guaranteed someones not going to like it.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Johntp, I believe you are upset about the fact that some people are against the new law in Arizona. I would like to try and answer some of what you wrote.
It is BS that people that are against illegal immigration are racist. Sorry, but there is only so much money to go around. Mexico's corrupt government has failed their population. Does that mean the USA has to pick up the slack to the detriment of legal residents?
You are correct. The US of A shouldn't have to pick of the slack from the failures of other countries. No one who is against the new law in Arizona thinks we should. We aren't against stemming the tide of illegal immigration, we are against a new law that will likely lead to harassment of legal US of A American citizens. Maybe its not possible to avoid this harassment, I don't know. I just know that making an effort to make things fair for everyone is important. US citizens of hispanic decent shouldn't have to carry passports to prove their citizenship.
The Mexican government needs to step up to the plate. Not me. It is too bad these people are suffering, but my check book is barely enough for me, let alone bailing out the rest of the world.
True enough. Are you aware that one of the real reasons that the politicians have done little to stem the tide of illegal immigration is that illegal immigrants who work low paying jobs actually cost the US of A less in taxes then good ol Americans working those same low paying jobs do?
Do you know why? Its because while an American would be able to access all the benefits he or she would accrue as a tax paying citizen. An illegal immigrant can't. They can't get social security. So in affect, they are paying for your social security. If you are willing to give that up, then maybe closing the borders completely would be good.
Yeah, you guys sitting in a nice house and comfy pension plans have money to spare. I do not. Oh, by the way, do any of you see we are the only country dealing with this? Try being in Mexico without documentation. Or any other nation.
Once again, no one is against non US citizens carrying ID papers saying they are allowed to be in the US. What we are against is a law that would in affect require proud American citizens of hispanic decent to always be in possession of a passport to be able to prove to any officer of the law that they are in the country legally.
Hell, if you work for the government and have guaranteed employment and benefits, this is no big deal. But if you work in the private sector this is an incredible tax burden.
Once again, this is not true. Our current system of allowing illegals to work in America actually helps support our current system. It costs more to have an American in a low paying job, then it does an illegal. Not because illegals are paid less, but because of the fact that they can not access all of the benefits that a true American citizen can.
To reiterate. I, along with others who are against this new law in Arizona, are not against stemming the tide of illegal immigration. We just don't think this new law is the correct way to go about it. If you want to require everyone in America to prove they are here legally, then I might be okay with that. But this law doesn't do that. It is biased against a section of the US citizens. Specifically those of hispanic ancestry.
Yes I do understand that it doesn't require them to carry a passport. But if they just look like an illegal alien, and perhaps roll through a stop sign, or cross a double yellow line, when they are stopped for that offense, the officer can now make them prove they are American citizens if he suspects they are illegal aliens, or even if he is just pissed off. And if they can't prove they are here legally, because they aren't carrying a passport, then he can arrest them until they can prove they are here legally. This is a US citizen we are talking about, not an illegal alien.
I hope that this clears up some of the misunderstandings.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 03:22am PT
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Wow, you mother f*#kers really piss me off sometimes...
I'm the racist? 5 kids with American flag shirts were kicked off out school, and I'm a racist? 2 of those kids were of "mexican" heritage....
f*#k you!
Again...where is the ACLU to defend their rights???? By their lack of presence they show their true colors...red, red, red.....commies....
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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F*#k yous sure do fly fast and furious on the internet.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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They don't have to carry a passport but having a valid ID will go a long way toward avoiding being arrested. Technically, anyone without an ID in posesssion can be arrested until identified. It has happened to me and they don't come any whiter looking than me. But I was being an as#@&%e at the time and deserved it.
I think MOST of the time it will play out that way. If an Hispanic looking individual is violating the law and can produce ID like everyone else in this country has to then there will probably be no issue. Do you really believe that cops are going to start running around carding every Hispanic? Talk about a fulltime job! I think this law is going to give them another weapon to help get rid of the gang as#@&%es and that is what they will focus on.
But that being said, Any of us can run into the wrong cop and getting hassled for your ID would be the least of your problems.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Theres a lot of hate in this thread which is unfortunate that you've allowed your passions to come out as hatred.
I have been struggling recently to self define America. I think ive lost the ideal somewhere and I think its because of the things I see and hear. What is pride in America? Is it blasting someone for sending these kids home? Do you go to that school? What is the deeper meaning behind this silly little problem? So they send the kids back to school and tell everyone else "Don't Riot guys, don't be offended its our flag."
Why do those other kids even feel that way? We've divided our country, not the government, not the media, its the people...
We think were invincible behind our monitors and microphones. Go outside and yell this to someones face. Drive to that school and walk in and yell at those kids, parents, and principles. I'll bet its a lot harder. Chances are you might even talk with someone and realize its all different then it sounds. Don't allow your hate to build and feel like a strong person for spaying it across the internet...
The world is not black and white...
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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It's more about the Monroe doctrine than anything else. That is why it is a U.S. holiday.
I think it here it is a corporate holiday set up to sell beer, Look how it is advertised. The same as St. Paddy's Day. Maybe means a bit to the people back home. I am sure 80% of the people who celebrate Cinco de Mayo do not know what the Monroe Doctrine is.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Salmanizer: She won't need to prove her citizenship, neither will you or I or anyone for that matter. This bill is targeting known illegals in the state of Arizona and allowing Arizona to do something about it. Nobody is going to detain you and demand that you prove your citizenship. The state would get sued. But if you're a known illegal alien living in Arizona or are caught crossing the border, you better come up with a valid passport pronto. The only people who are going to be directly questioned and effected by this new law are those picked up attempting to cross the border and those who are arrested for other crimes and found to be in this country illegally.
The thing is you're giving an opening to the Sheriff Joes of Arizona to run amok. Even more than they already are.
Targeting known illegals? What does that mean? If they are known to be illegal, the border patrol is already on them.
I'll believe the pols of this country are really serious about curbing illegal immigration, and not just pandering to the easily confused segment of the voting public, when the CEO of Iowa Beef Processors and other employers of KNOWN illegals start getting prosecuted.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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THAT is funny!
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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We're cross talking about at least two different issues.
Illegal immigration is one thing, kids getting kicked out of school for wearing an American flag is another.
When it comes to kids, and some of you teachers back me up here, their rights are different when they are in school.
Free speech has limits in the classroom, remember Bong Hits4Jesus? That went to the supreme court. The kid didn't actually have the right to free speech because he was at a school function. While some protest is tolerated, I believe that teachers and admin can shut down any speech that may be disruptive.
Now for Adults- I can walk down the street in my Murican flag speedo if I like, thanks possibly to RockJox's Idaho case. As long as my junk is contained and I don't get popped for indecent exposure.
I can walk my white hairy flag partially covered ass into a whole Mexican American celebration if I want, as long as that celebration is on public property. If some one hits me- it's assault. If I instigate a fight, then we see where it goes from there, but I do have the right to wear my speedo.
Wes- the stars and bars always mystify me. It's the flag of traitors and oppression, but somehow patriotic? On the otherhand, Skynard has some great stuff.
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Of course it's not Mexican independence day
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