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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 13, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
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We seem to have several tangents going at once, and I can only pop by occasionally.
I once heard, second or third hand, that the rift in the BCMC in the 1920s had in part to do with Saturday night activities at the cabin on Grouse offending some of the more prim and proper members. I wonder if that, plus perhaps the usual personality clashes, precipitated the schism? It may also be that Tom Fyles was thought by a few to be overbearing - that is, too overbearing for a 'mere' postie, in those still class-ridden times. Certainly the local ACC was long seen as the establishment organization, and the BCMC a more egalitarian group. Though such generalizations have less meaning than they used to.
A history of the first 40 - 50 years of climbing at Squamish will be enough for me, I think. Just thinking and planning and literature review, the Slab Alley project, and discussion, has taken most of a year. Hopefully someone like hard-as-nails Tricouni will take up a Coast Range history, or history of mountaineering in BC - which does include some of the Rubbly/Rocky Mountains.
I once posed the question to Oploplanax as to whether there was any unnamed or unclimbed summit visible from within the boundaries of greater Vancouver. That is, a peak showing a 50 m/100 ft contour on a map. An intriguing question. (Oploplanax is a fancy word for devil's club, one of our local ornamental shrubs.)
The Vulcan's Thumb is visible from the highway north of Squamish, and perhaps we should auction off the 'right' to its first ascent to some sucker. It might be a good fundraiser for the Climbers' Access Society.
I'll be at the BCMC social tonight, drinking my tea and eating my cookie, enduring the usual maundering. They have a valid point - snowmobiles, and motorized activities generally, are inappropriate in parks and wilderness. Mountaineering and climbing are about both means and ends. As we all know, if any means of getting to the top is acceptable, there isn't much merit in the ascent. In addition to their environmental impacts, "sledheads" seem to readily confuse means and ends.
As for history... Well, we all have our own perspective on it. Climbers being a somewhat proud, territorial, and critical bunch both helps and hinders. Also, writing climbing history is not a money-making activity, unless it's dumbed down to the tourist level, with lots of pretty photos. It is feasible to make money writing guidebooks, although with changing technology perhaps not for much longer. (Advertisements in guidebooks strike me as tacky, but maybe are now necessary.) We are fortunate at Squamish to have not one but two writers and publishers of climbing guidebooks for the area. They both produce what are overall very useful publications, and do a good job. One shows some bias, in terms of who did what when. It's annoying, in that it could easily be corrected. As Ghost observes, for a generic sport-climbing area, it may not matter much. When there is some history, it's important to try to get it right, in guidebooks and all the more so in histories.
I cringe to think of errors I've made in past writing about climbing, e.g. in the 1980 guidebook. Perhaps I was young enough then that it can be forgiven.
I haven't seen the new select guide that Hamish refers to, but am looking forward to it.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 13, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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the Class Warrior has already reaped what he sowed ... just as we all do
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:02am PT
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There is now a link to the museum site, and a link to this SuperTopo forum thread on the website of the Anachronistic Club of Canada [ACC]. We have a spy in our midst........
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:07am PT
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There is now a link to the museum site, and a link to this SuperTopo forum thread on the website of the Anachronistic Club of Canada [ACC].
I took a look at the Airborne Climbers of Canada site and didn't see any link. Can you give us a url?
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Chief
climber
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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Nice work Anders.
Jim and bm, I don't see a warrior or any class.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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Chief sez:
Jim and bm, I don't see a warrior or any class
Touche !
We could grind this pyroclastic axe forever ....
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 14, 2010 - 01:11am PT
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there are a lot of problems with "contemporary" history in Yosemite Valley... there has been no comprehensive guide book since 1994, probably 1000s of climbs are undocumented, little of this has reported in the climbing journals because most of this development doesn't reach the level of notoriety.
Who ever wants to write whatever history they think they can, should. The development of the 70s, now 40 years ago, will be lost as that generation of climbers comes to an end.
Canadian climbing has a long, proud history, and it should be told... there are wonderful stories held by just a relatively few climbers. I don't know how to implore you all enough.... but to say that the only stories that will survive are the ones you write down. Perhaps a few of the spoken stories will be recalled and written by those young ones who have heard them and piece them together, but once their attention turns to recording history, as ours did when we got old, they will wish they knew more.
It doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things, of course, but it is something we once did, it was the way we decided to spend a large part of our lives. It would be a wonderful legacy to pass those stories along.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 14, 2010 - 02:14am PT
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You gotta love this Ed guy. Well said.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
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I wonder who the ACC 'mole' is?
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MH2
climber
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:50pm PT
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No FA names? Damn! They often give more useful information about a route than the rest of it.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 14, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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Canadian climbing has a long, proud history, and it should be told...
Some of it has been told. I was lucky enough to be part of a project, dreamed up by Bruce Fairley, that eventually became "The Canadian Mountaineering Anthology". We picked stories that we hoped would tell the tale of 100 years of climbing and got them out in a book. The publication was financed by the ACC, and a quick look at Amazon confirms that it is still in print and available.
Needless to say, one book, even a relatively fat one like this, can't come anywhere close to telling all the stories that need to be told. But we did what we could, and maybe now it's time for someone to get the ball rolling for Volume II.
D
And, in case any of you are wondering, we didn't write the stories ourselves, but dug up stories previously published in various places, and used them as they were originally written. We tried to add some commentary, to give readers a bit of background, but the stories really do speak for themselves.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 14, 2010 - 01:21pm PT
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Any comments on Chic Scott's book "Pushing the Limits: the Story of Canadaian Mountaineering"?
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 14, 2010 - 02:12pm PT
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Chic's interviews would do well to be on Youtube, more accessible than where they are now
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 14, 2010 - 02:19pm PT
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Any historian worthwhile reading will do a lotta legwork in interviewing the various players and following their leads as to who did what, when , how and possibly even why.
Sorting the wheat from the chaff then becomes a game of listening to those stories and cross-referrencing notes from various sources.
It sound so easy.
I'm sure that reconciling Kevin's interview with Perry's interview will be a pleasant afternoon, with an outcome guaranteed to make everyone happy.
Gee Anders, what r ya waitin for?
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Apr 14, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
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I still don't understand how Chic Scott f*#ked up so badly as to totally miss, or dismiss, or not even really mention Hank Mather in his Pushing the Limits book
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Apr 14, 2010 - 04:19pm PT
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And Perry, I don't know about Loeks and Putnam but the FFA of the Left Side in the latest McLane guides goes to Nic Taylor and Paul Peart (visiting Australians) in '75. The same info is also given in the CAJ as I recall. Nic Taylor was an Australian hotshot i believe? (there's a couple period pics of him in Yosemite Climber I think too)
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2010 - 04:25pm PT
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Yes, Kerwin - writing guidebooks and histories is a sure bet for making friends. :-)
The FFA of the left side of the Split Pillar was by visiting Australian Nic Taylor and Peter Peart, in 1975. Peter had emigrated from Australia to Canada in 1970 or so, and was quite active. I knew him through the BCMC, and also we had some classes together in 1975, and he mentioned his and Nic's adventure to me. (Really.) I have several times attempted to correct the "Paul" bit, without success. Peter still lives here, on Bowen Island - he's an engineer. Nic was here on a road trip - I believe the first Australian to pass this way on a visit may have been Chris Baxter, in 1972.
There was some skepticism about Nic and Peter's ascent, in that Peter was more into mountaineering, and Nic not well known. But Nic went on to do some impressive climbs in Australia and Yosemite, offering additional proof. I'm reasonably sure that Peter jumared the crux, or at least had a tight rope.
Peter patiently belayed me on the FA of A Question of Balance, in 1977. That is, while I tiptoed about, drilled bolts, and got scared.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 14, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
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Yes, Kerwin - writing guidebooks and histories is a sure bet for making friends. :-)
And don't forget the part about gettin rich.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2010 - 05:03pm PT
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Jim Campbell's 1985 topo guide has the FA of the so-called "Grand Wazoo" by Dick Culbert and Tim Auger in 1972. The Grand Wazoo was (I believe) a Daryl name which never caught on for the left side of the Pillar, followed by a short pitch linking to the ledge at the top of the Pillar. Perhaps from a time when Nic's ascent wasn't given credence.
Dick was involved in Ten Years After in 1970 (not 1971), and so would have known how to get to the base of the left side via Mercy Me and the traverse. Jim's guide incorrectly reports the FFA of the "Grand Wazoo to Grand Wall" being by Bill Price, Daryl Hatten and Mike Boris in 1978. That more accurately was the second free ascent of the left side, with the new linkup pitch. (Later further confused by the "Grinning Weasel".)
I wonder if Peter P has photos from the left side?
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 14, 2010 - 06:13pm PT
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Chic not only missed Hank Mather, he missed Leif-Norman Patterson. Both are worthy of inclusion, but he only had so much space, and it was a judgement call on his part.
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!