Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
Private land owners who allow camping on their property definitely have rights to limit or prohibit guns.
Myself, I worry that it will come down to a majority of the population carrying guns......and should civil law break down, a return to the stripe of gunplay in the old west in which small disputes escalate to outcomes with deadly consequences......and even competitive “shootouts” motivated by who’s the “faster gun.”
(Many street gangs are already there)
However, statistics suggest that states with high per capita gun ownership have many fewer home invasions. And murder rates are lower in states with more permissive concealed carry laws.
This is from FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1994:
|
|
Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
|
|
I waded through this long thread being a longtime weekend bivy resident of the pit.
Locker NAILED it:
"IMHO...
It "SHUD" be KEPT way MORE on the "DOWN LOW"..."
That's the problem. It's so well known now. To folks outside the climbing community. I bivied there a couple times at the start of this season but found the combo of folks there a little more unnerving than in all the years past. It's no longer just road tripping climbers who couldn't find camping in the park and just need to car camp in their rigs. There's a different element there now.
I don't stay there anymore. I had many a great weekend staying there in the past but it's not the same place anymore.
It helped when Blitzo had the trailer out there last season. He was kind of the mayor of Pit-ville and kept on people about the rules and order of the place. Now I think it's more free for all. I came in one Friday at the start of this season and this guy had set up an entire campsite with his tent, stoves, etc that took up three parking spots (there's not that many in the pit for that to be cool). He didn't understand the nature of the pit being a car camping place.
The Pit was best when it was on the down low as locker said.
ps - Robert thanks for all you do to keep that place in order.
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Always the pragmatist, this is my position: it's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have one. I'm planning a trip to California in May; I will be packing. End of story.
|
|
Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
|
|
I used to camp at the pit pretty regularly, back when it was climbers and people looked out for each other. My last pit experience was a few years back and the tweaker scene was more than I could take, I didn't feel safe and started camping at the Wal Mart instead. If that tells you anything...
Kate
|
|
Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
|
|
Kate, always good to hear from you. Hope you're doing well out there.
|
|
Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
|
|
I'm sure climbers bring weapons on roadies...but posting about being armed and proud - especially something as simple as staying in the Pit. Just feels different. I couldn't see this conversation happening, I guess until now.
Just don't want to see a "go ahead, make my day" close down the Pit.
Have you stayed there? Do you know what's going on? Love ya Dingus but I've spent many a night in the pit and never want to see something like a shooting incident go on there, from any perspective.
We need Billy the Mayor of the Pit back. He kept things in check.
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
Indeed I have heard about a lot of climbers and their guns over the years. It seems very few talk about them or show them, though. IMO - in addition to the power fantasy I think many of these people harbor, I think there's also the complimentary fear of the thing getting wrestled away from their scared little beings and used on them.
Chaz - if there is a 2 tent rule, that would be news to me. Pretty sure it's 6 people, 2 cars, nothing about tents, though more than 6 is a flag. Again, it's incredibly selfish of you to book camping spots so all your friends can have a place to park. May your Karma cause your kite to burst into flames.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
My mistake, JLP,
It's a three-tent per site maximum rule.
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
|
|
I don't know where you got you info. It does not match the numbers that i see. In 2008 idaho's crime rate was 48th out of 51 that includes d.c.- california was 27th. If you are not a gang member your chances of being murderd in Idaho are 4 time greater than california. to me the funny part is property crime is 6 times higer in idaho. yawho - the fbi inveted the number for rape its not 14th but 41st. Sadly california is 40th.Forced robbery again Ithehole is 48th. the lower the number the less crime per 100,000. idaho is a great place but stop making it something it is not.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
Hey Jennie, I'm sorry I jumped on you so hard. I was a bit touchy yesterday.
I do disagree with you interpretation of the numbers. Yes, some states with loose carry laws have lower violent crime rates, yet the opposite is also true. I don't think the numbers support either case. So to me, Rox's opinion is subjective. He doesn't have numbers to support his case, he is going on what he feels. I feel differently. There have been times when I have kept a weapon in my vehicle when camping, but I don't feel the need often. Oddly enough, it has been on trips to Idaho when I have felt happy to have a gun.
One trip up north, I was traveling through Idaho and pulled off the highway and drove up a forest service road in the night. I crawled into the back of my vehicle and slept. I woke up in the morning with 3 guys surrounding my vehicle with guns. At first they were belligerent, and were trying to give me a hard time. One was rocking my truck trying to wake me. I came awake and racked my nine and they immediately became respectful. So I do understand Rox's point of view. I just find it odd that these guys weren't going to be respectful until they realized that I had a gun. They turned out to be nice guys who invited me to their camp for a hot breakfast.
When they first started harrassing me, all they saw was a california plate and they thought I was their to horn in on their hunting area. I explained that I wasn't there to hunt, but was just sightseeing and they calmed down.
Life is strange. Like DMT, I am careful about where I stop to sleep and don't like stopping close to a highway.
|
|
TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
|
|
It's not all gun owners RJ, it's you and your rants...
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
No Rox, that was a rant. Too 'noisy' to even tell what you were trying to talk about.
|
|
AndyG
climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
Last time I wanted to camp for free at Josh we parked at a backcountry board and walked in about a mile and a half. No tweakers there. I don't figure many tweakers will drive X miles down geology tour road and wander around in the desert late at night looking for someone to rob.
Of course you actually have to pack some gear up in a backpack and hike for a bit.
|
|
James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
|
|
Nice posts, Jennie. Thanks for the research instead of just proclaiming.
|
|
James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
|
|
Locker,
Nice job, but that guy was obviously an idiot with no weapon retention skills.
|
|
Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
|
|
TRUCE on the gun issue please.
This isn't a gun issue thread. If you want to argue this, please start a thread about it. This is about what's going on with the Pit. Let's please get back on topic. Thanks all.
|
|
James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
|
|
I wasn't referring to you, Rokjox, I agree with everything you have said for the most part. Whether BS or not as Flaccid claims, you still have some decent tactical advice.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
I'll be going to the pit.
I'll need a big gun.
Scary guys like Locker may come knocking on my door ...
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
Where are you people getting your statistics re: Idaho being a dangerous state (regarding violent crime)?
Idaho appears to be one of the safer states from my quick googling, which is what I would have expected. This is according to US government statistics.
See
http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
I agree statistics on this subject may be of limited (if any) value, but still let's not just start making stuff up. (If there are other statistics that indicate that Idaho is a relatively dangerous state, I apologize, I'm just not seeing that at all.)
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
|
|
Thanks for the heads-up on THE PIT.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!