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jopay
climber
so.il
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Mar 29, 2010 - 10:17am PT
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Guido,
Not only are you an old world craftsman but you're shop looked like it would make a neat house, anyone live in it? Beautiful boat, thanks for posting.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:01am PT
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Finally took the time to read this and have to add my WOW also.
Happy sailing Cap'n
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:28am PT
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Beautiful and inspiring TR, Guido! Thanks for sharing. I always planned to climb until I was 50, then build a boat and sail the world. Though I never did it, I'm glad to know one who did.
-Jeff
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:49am PT
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A most inspiring thread! As a sailor I am in awe.
That is a beautifully designed boat. She looks like she
rides like a dream come whatever may blow.
Not in the same league but similar:
My 'first mate' pounding pegs...
On the summit!
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Mar 29, 2010 - 12:19pm PT
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Nice Reilly!
What the feck is it?
By the way, I'm a big fan of dowel work also. It's a disease I got from my father...
Although I have only completed a couple projects, it's great to know that you built something entirely with dowels.
Thanks for the thread drift too. We need to get a little attention off Guido the attention hog...HA!!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Mar 29, 2010 - 12:26pm PT
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"What the feck is it?"
What, ya never seen a backyard temple to the Mighty UW Husky?
It's a gazebo for grilling and chilling! Can't seem to find
any of the finished product complete with ceiling fan and copper shingles.
Wait...
If I can be excused a slight amount of wood butcher thread drift I
completely plagiarized my design. It is based on the hammer beam
truss roof that holds up Westminster Hall:
When I took my drawings down to the building dept the head dude
was scratchin' his balls going, "Uh, I dunno."
I says, "Yanno this has been holding up the roof of Westminster Hall
for lo these 500 years, dontchya? And furthermore, the mid-span joint
is the type employed by the Admiralty after they worked through all the
really good oak in England and couldn't cut ribs out of single trees anymore.
The HMS Victory's ribs have this joint."
I got my permit.
Now, back to boats and climbing
Rapping back for lunch, Stockholm Archipelago...
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Mar 29, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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Awesome project Guido!
Makes me pine for my Windrose 24 on Humdoldt Bay.........
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Carolyn C
Trad climber
the long, long trailer
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Mar 29, 2010 - 02:04pm PT
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An inspiring and beautiful journey. Also really liked the family website referenced by Peter Haan - great story about the re-purchasing and refurbishing the Shanachie.
A couple of months ago I travelled to Winnemucca, NV, for a concert by an old, crusty folk/western music legend, Ramblin' Jack Elliott. The day following the concert I found myself having lunch at the same restaurant as Ramblin' Jack. So, naturally, I had to share with him how much I enjoyed his concert, and he invited me to chat for a while: all he wanted to talk about was building boats. He lives on the coast in northern CA, and sails all the time. Didn't want to talk about music...nope, just building boats and sailing.
Truly, "Not all those who wander are lost."
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2010 - 02:44pm PT
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Reilly
What a neat project! And Pemits? We "don't need no stinkin permits" was the motto of the day. After endless problems with the building department I formed a company called "Red Tag Construction".
Santa Cruz became the most difficult county in the state to acquire a permit and build.
Ramblin Jack use to hang out in Santa Cruz because that is where his ex lived. We had him down to the house several times and he does love boats and he does love singing and he does love Jack and now you know why his is called Ramblin.
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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Mar 29, 2010 - 03:29pm PT
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jstan and others,
without boring the hell out of everyone here with a alot of technical babble, I think I can address a couple of questions here.
First, the trapezoidal keel configuration found on this particular design is very fitting for a boat of this type and a design of this era. More on this in a minute/
jstan, the leverage that I believe your are trying to describe here is what is known as Righting Moment. of course a moment is a force times a distance and in the case of righting moment this is calculated by multiplying the boats total weight or displacement by the righting arm GZ which is the distance between the boats center of gravity CG and the boats center of buoyancy CB. In order for the boat to float level on its lines these two centers must be in equilibrium. As a force is applied to the sails a counter force is applied to the keel. As this occurs the center of buoyancy begins to move away from the center of gravity CG on a horizontal axis. The distance that occurs between these two centers is the righting arm GZ and as the boats heel angle increases so does the distance. Righting Moment is expressed in Foot Pounds or Kilogram Meters.
Ok, everyone with me so far? No matter what its shape, the primary function of the keel is the same. However the intended purpose of the boat and its overall design can have an effect on the keels shape. jstan the keel configuration you are describing is commonly known as a bulb / fin configuration in which a long slender strut or fin is attached to he hulls underside with a lead bulb at its bottom or tip. This configuration is more commonly seen in racing boat designs where the fin is either made of steel or on some cases carbon fiber and the bulb is lead. This configuration not only fulfills the basic function of the keel but, it also helps reduce wetted surface in an attempt to reduce the various drag components associated with a fuller keel. On top of that it enables the designer to lower the center of gravity which has an effect on Righting Moment. RM can be seen as a measure of a boats ability to carry sail area. In the case of a racing sailboat sail area = horsepower. Also by putting more weight low in the bulb one can reduce weight out of the hull structure.
So, you ask why not employ this technology on Joes boat? Well through the iterative design process one might be able to come to some solution. However as Joe points out there could be some associated problems as well. There is a movement in design called Modern Classics in which above water they have the graceful lines of older designs with modern like Americas Cup technology below the waterline. There are a number of factors that need to be taken into account when we look at keel design. Hull shape, mast height, mast position, Sail center of effort CE, The hulls vertical center of gravity etc. etc. the list goes on.
The bulb / fin configuration could possibly provide a reduction in wetted surface, however there could be a penalty in increased draft as well as the prospect of a less forgiving helm. The trapezoidal keel found on this boat provides the basic function of the keel and although may incur a penalty in the form of more wetted surface and the drag associated with that, it also provides sufficient stability and lift for this particular design. I have seen cases where people have tired to employ more modern keel configurations on older boats in which the result was that the keel generated so much lift that the drag associated with it actually slowed the boat down.
Fuller keels do provide a more forgiving helm (easier to steer) for the most part and in the case of this boats intended purpose now I think that is a major criteria Joes is after.
Hope I did not bore too many people with this. I personally think its a really good looking boat and design.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Mar 29, 2010 - 04:57pm PT
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What an achievement !! Congratulations !
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jstan
climber
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Mar 29, 2010 - 06:46pm PT
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Thanks for the discussion. Enjoyed it.
I would think people are now probably laser patterning the surfaces of racing hulls to get the same reduction in resistance recently banned from swim suits in the Olympics. Anything that reduces energy deposition in the boundary layer should be very helpful.
And Joe's boat is exquisite.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2010 - 07:00pm PT
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It is also nice to have a a big fat hunk of lead for that occasional encounter with a reef. Have kissed a reef on four occasions over the past years and it isn't fun. Sailing pucker factor of 10 on a scale of 10. There are literally thousands of poorly or uncharted reefs in the south pacific.
They say there are two types of cruisers: those that have hit a reef and those that will hit one. Also, nice to have a powerful skeg from which the rudder is hung as an added protection and strength. Again, we are talking bluewater offshore cruising boats here.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Mar 29, 2010 - 07:07pm PT
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I am trying to work and at same time catch up with the 'Taco' after many days away.
Skimming through threads and finding this one is not making it easy.
Slakkey:
Thanks for the explaination of keel design for the others ;)
Neither here nor there but I still have my copy of the N.A.C.A reference book on foil config's and the associated coefficients.
Pate:
R.I upbringing 'eh?
Where abouts exactly? I Have sailed and surfed all over Narragansett.
Joe:
I would love the opportunity to meet and bull with you.
Just a couple of days ago I was thinking I should get myself to Santa Cruz for a 'looksee'. There are a lot of sights and friends in Santa Cruz that I have not seen in over 25 years.
I grew up in Marblehead Ma. While other kids went to baseball camp I was in dinghy racing school at Pleon YC. My father is a retired sailmaker/rigger of 25+ years with Hood sail loft. In my early teens I had a lot of great sailing opportunities. I crewed on a 65' Alden Schooner named the 'When and If' during the 1976, Bicentennial tall ship event in Newport RI. I helped build a few boats as a kid and later when they were completed got to take them out on my own. On one occasion at the ripe age of 14 I was able to borrowed for a day sail a 45', ferrocement, 'Tancook Whaler'. A Nova Scotia designed fishing schooner. I took the beautiful, blonde tutor I had a mad crush on out for her first ever sail. She went on to spend years at sea making many transatlantic crossings on a few different schooners that were sail training/school at sea, vessels.
Then the climbing bug hit. Early in my climbing I made road trip money by doing spring/fall boat deliveries. Mostly from New England area too or from the Newport R.I or Annapolis M.D, boat shows. I worked for Hurricane Island Outward Bound school as a climbing instructor which was great to have both worlds wrapped up in a neat little 300 acre package ;)
Then I moved too Santa Cruz to be closer to the Valley but still live on the Ocean. I lived in Santa Cruz for Three years (give or take) mostly working for Larry Tuttle at 'Water Rat' custom boat builders but I did do a winter season with 'Olson' (production) Boat builder on 42'nd street (that totally sukked). I later moved to Hawai'i to build windsurf sails for 'Hot sails Maui'.
So Mr. McKeon your thread is Gold too me ;)
I am sure we could have a zillion stories to swap about everything from keel bolts to keel hauling, from red tide to green flashes, from sunny cockpits to three day gales and knee deep flotsam sloshing around on the cabin sole. I magine you, me and Gene/Mighty Hiker could do an extensive conversation on Hawaiian/Maoli/polynesian culture.
Then we can start with the Santa Cruz and Yosemite area climbing and climber stories. While living in Santa Cruz I was/still am good friends with Mark Grant. I've heard a few wild stories from him that you could validate for me ;).
Although I could never afford to build a boat for myself I have participated in the building of numerous boats. Everything from surf and sail boards through Olympic class, high performance dinghies and on up too a couple different 45' ferrocement boats. Before moving to the Warmer climes of Hawai'i from New England I was very much into winter freeskate/ice sailing. I had built a dozen or so ice sailing decks either for trade or sale. They were constructed with Mahogany wood, UD Graphite, S-Glass and Gougeon/ West System epoxy. I dubbed the craft's class name to be 'Ice-O-Tope' and it has the class insignia of U, over slash, 235. One was traded to a board sailing mentor and the guy that got me into ice sailing Jeff Brown. I recently googled Jeff's name and found out that he is still riding an ice sailing board that I built 25 years ago. He has made extensive modifications too the original suspension since then but the deck is unaltered after all these years. Well I discovered that I now hold the (albeit minor) distinction of being the designer/builder of the craft that holds the world speed sailing record for freesail ice craft:
windsurfingmag.com/videos/new-iceboard-gps-speed-sailing-record/
Joe:
Your boat 'Shanachie' ? She looks to be basically a cold molded, West system type of construction yes?
Were you using Gougeon epoxy for glue and:
This book for a bible?
~~~~~~~~
Joe, You mention certain things about the construction of the building shed and the moving of the vessel to the water. That conjures a bevy of stories for me. One in particular I thought you'd appreciate. While working for Larry Tuttle at Water Rat in his first S.C shop off Seabright, we built a 40' high performance boat. The shed permit was a bear to get so Larry pulled a swifty and built a shed off the side of our shop. The shed was built using nothing but duplex nails for the framing and polyethylene sheeting for the skin. (yes it was hot!). We never needed a permanent structure building permit. The inspector did drop in one day but after seeing the construction and getting a verbal promise that the shed would be dismantled as soon as the boat was done he left us in peace. I think the shed stood after the boat left for quite some time until the polyethylene was just in tatters.
I have to go but I will check back on this way cool thread this evening.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2010 - 07:56pm PT
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Wow
Another crossover between climbing and sailing.
I am really curious as to what the "beautiful blond tutor" was tutoring you in?
"Water Rat" was building the Stradivarius version of the 505 if I remember. Friggin building inspectors!
Yes, it was built to the Gougeon system that was so popular at that time. West Epoxy and all. Arnie Duckworth who worked with the Gougeons and later introduced West Epoxy to New Zealand was the one who introduced me to David Blair. After David worked with me, he returned to Santa Cruz and built the plug for the ever popular Express 37 designed by the late and great Carl Schumakker.
Iceboats! Wild and scary. Would love to try one someday but ice is so hard to crash on. Also I believe ice is cold.
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TomKimbrough
Social climber
Salt Lake City
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Mar 29, 2010 - 07:58pm PT
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Joe - Lovely!
I always wanted to sail but I guess I'll stick to canoes in northern Canada.
Cheers,
Kimbrough
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Paulina
Trad climber
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Mar 29, 2010 - 08:16pm PT
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I get seasick and don't float, but this story is amazing and inspiring. Thank you!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Mar 29, 2010 - 08:23pm PT
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There's something about a work of art that has utility that I really appreciate. Like a musical instrument. Not only is the object beautiful just to look at and appreciate it's lines, but there are underlying reasons that drive it's form. Engineering and artwork coming together to create soemthing that transcends the mechanical or functionless.
After the Loma Prieta quake Santa Cruz county waived building permits for a while. We looked at some scary out of code but not illegal houses up in those hills.
I love listenign to Neal's Fandango by the Doobies when I'm cruising up there.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Mar 29, 2010 - 08:51pm PT
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DAMN!!! What a project!
Very nice work there, Guido!
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