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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
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Mar 26, 2010 - 06:44pm PT
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I have thought about suicide over and over the years and years. I remember thinking about it since I was like 15. So in 35 years I am still here. So not to worry. The problem is that sometimes I just am not thinking straight and really worry I might do something in the heat of the moment. I got rid of all my guns years ago for this very reason. I plan never to own a gun again.
Since I stopped the Zyprexa my life has been hell. I have lost the ability to sleep and am in a constant state of anxiety. It is nearly impossible to drag myself out of bed and go to work, and when I am at work I am functioning at about 25 percent.
I keep telling myself just to relax and take one day at a time.
Things will get better.
I wish I could still climb like I used to, I found that spending the day free soloing at Taqhuitz would clear away all my depression in my 20's.
Climbing twenty pitches in a day would clear out all my blues for days.
Juan
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
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Mar 26, 2010 - 06:44pm PT
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I have thought about suicide over and over the years and years. I remember thinking about it since I was like 15. So in 35 years I am still here. So not to worry. The problem is that sometimes I just am not thinking straight and really worry I might do something in the heat of the moment. I got rid of all my guns years ago for this very reason. I plan never to own a gun again.
Since I stopped the Zyprexa my life has been hell. I have lost the ability to sleep and am in a constant state of anxiety. It is nearly impossible to drag myself out of bed and go to work, and when I am at work I am functioning at about 25 percent.
I keep telling myself just to relax and take one day at a time.
Things will get better.
I wish I could still climb like I used to, I found that spending the day free soloing at Taqhuitz would clear away all my depression in my 20's.
Climbing twenty pitches in a day would clear out all my blues for days.
Juan
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Mar 26, 2010 - 10:57pm PT
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My detailed plan I had two years ago was to jump off the summitt boulder at Stoney.
My second was hanging.
My third was standing in front of the Metrorail just down from the backwall
Only once was I psyched up to do it. At that point I called my therapist at 2 in the Morning. She put things back into perspective.
But what if I had a gun. If you know someone that even mentions suicide the first thing is to find out if they have a gun and get it.
I am also convinced that if most people have time to just chill and think it out. Put it off for 24 hours their odds go up drastically.
Working on a college campus is quite easy to spot the body language of the students siting in the hall. If one looks depressed I now make it my point to go over and talk with them. Let them know that the stresss of college are extreme these days to say the leasy. This student was taking a lab class I wrote the manual for. It was a simple matter to get the correct answers and explain what was going on. The student lighted up knowing two weeks work had been explained and finished. On this Earth we all really need to learn to live for our brother human beings. College Classes have to have a team effort to make sure everyone understands the material.
After seeing what I went through I really want to give something back - I plan to start a depresion support group for the students.
JDF
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 26, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
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That's good stuff Juan.
Translate your own pain, empathize, extend that compassion to others.
You have really got something there.
 Roy
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Mar 27, 2010 - 06:36am PT
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[img]http://www.topnews.in/health/files/depressed.jpg[/[img]
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Mar 27, 2010 - 06:38am PT
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I see this look on students all the time. A Lone wolf with the weight of the world on their shoulders.
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Mar 27, 2010 - 06:49am PT
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The vey classsic body language
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Mar 27, 2010 - 09:59am PT
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Suicide and climbing?
Should I respond? I know a little about both.
I once lived in Yosemite. I got interested in climbing, but the heights freaked me out. I have been fascinated with the activity for a long time since those days. I loved the rush, the endorphins, the connection to the granite and nature, etc.
I have always wanted to do it again and would love to do a big wall, just hang out on El Cap at least once in my life. I still want to do it but have a few problems holding me back. After I read the TR from the guy in NY who had a lot less climbing experience than I do, I figured it just might be possible. I have a few physical health problems that I would have to overcome first.
Suicide: an action that I have considered seriously since I was old enough to know what the word means. I can almost remember thinking "there's a way out of this mess".
I always came up with a reason not to, my mother and father, my beloved dog, the fact that someone would have to clean up the mess....
Most of those "stoppers" are gone. I have brothers and sisters, some close friends, a lot of school children that it would hurt that make me resist.
My life is one big pain and I would love for it to end. Brain chemistry is a department I got shorted in. Doctors, medications don't help... I spent 30 years doing that. Running, swimming, biking and physically working myself to exhaustion always helped but that has been taken from me.
So I don't want to do the suicide thing for the above reasons; but I look forward to death and pray for it continously. I would gladly switch places with someone who has a terminal illness, they could have my time left on the clock. Anything to alleivate the pain in my brain.
Back to climbing. I never once considered that as a way out and don't think there is any kind of link between suicide and climbers that is significant, relevant or worth researching. People climb because they enjoy the challenge and all the other reasons that have been expressed with more clarity than I can muster. Bottom line as I see it: People who are suicidal are in every walk of life and their reasons are as varied as the number of colors in the light spectrum.
I am going to post this, but I reserve the right to delete it. I am not sure if I qualify to speak or I might read this and it will seem so pathetic that I have to "erase". More than likely it would be too embarrassing.
Right now my brain is screaming for some relieve and writing about it helps me understand what my thoughts are. I guess to some degree it helps to alleviate some of the pain and hopelessness I feel. I don't normally feel the freedom to let these thoughts get too far away from home.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 27, 2010 - 11:17am PT
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Athens crumbled.
no stouter backbone of a culture ever stood.
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nita
Social climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Mar 27, 2010 - 02:31pm PT
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Tobia, Since you are someone i know and care about.. your post saddens me greatly. Wish i could say or do something to ease your pain.
Remember, This too shall pass..
Hold on and hold out for better days..
xoxxx
nita
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ6FcotLafM
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Mar 27, 2010 - 03:27pm PT
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Rockjox: Thanks for the message!
Nita: Thanks for the vibes and the song!
I have two dogs now, the one I mentioned was one I had for 17 years. I love them like children and when I spiral downward they are a blessing.
I appreciate the advice on the meds; I was under the care of the docs for 30 years and have been through them all and practically any combination of them. They just don't work on me. The last one I was one was the MAOI inhibitors, transmitted with a patch; kind of a psych's last resort. The side effects were too hard, the risk factor too high and positive results were nill. The next move was to experiment with meds from other countries and buying over the internet. I elected not to do that as they utilized the same chemical mechanics as other meds.
As noted earlier aerobic exercise and physical work was the best preventive I have ever had; but I have a chronic injury to my lower back and that has altered my lifestyle greatly.
My depression comes in waves, no rhyme or reason; unpredictable as the the next thread to be started. I have managed this long; and I guess I will manage a while longer. As I said I kind of eliminated suicide from the options; but would go willingly.
I discovered faith a year or so ago and I depend on that; which makes the whole ordeal a little easier.
I didn't intend to make such a "me" post but couldn't figure out how to validate my opinion without a little background. A recurring response to people's tragic taking of their own lives is how much it hurts those left behind. I thought perhaps I could provide a little insight on that line of thinking. I have to believe that people who "off" themselves did not do so without considering their friends, children and loved ones; at least I hope not. My conjecture is that it is no easy choice; but it may be the only viable relief. I can't speak for anyone but me; I can take a lot of pain and have a high threshold for it but depression is one relentless, cruel beast. It is hard to fight something you can't see.
I have told more than one shrink that I would give anything for someone else to hear the noise I listen to in my head. It comes in many forms, distorted noise, my own thoughts, my perception of people's perception of me, negative vibes... I am not sure how many forms. I try to adjust the volume or find the on/off switch but it doesn't exist.
The abyss is deep and when there doesn't seem to be a bottom or a surface, then there seems to be only one escape. I have heard people say "how cowardly" suicide is; but I have to disagree. I think it would take a lot of guts to do it. After all it is a permanent move. Although we all have our ideas on what might happen next there is no way to know until you make the move.
I hope my ramblings here have some value. If not I apologize and will gladly delete.
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Mar 27, 2010 - 04:36pm PT
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When medication does not work, some people benefit greatly from ECT treatments.
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dfrost7
climber
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Mar 27, 2010 - 05:08pm PT
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Tobia,
I agree. You have a great deal of courage to talk about one of the things people feel so badly (ashamed) about they keep it hidden. Fact is, you are probably in the company of those who are going through the same thing.
I got locked in depression after two close deaths in my life. I couldn't get out and couldn't talk about it to anyone. It would have been like trying to get people to believe in fairies or something. It lasted almost a year. It felt like it wouldn't end.
Thanks for talking about this. No one thinks it's a "you" thread. Darryl Mansfield (harmonica blues hall of famer) has a condition like yours. Very same description. Find him on FaceBook and friend him. He has made a public stand on the topic.
Keeping you in prayer, you matter.
Laurie
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Mar 27, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
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The OP talks about feeling there is empirical evidende. I have seen none posted so far only anecdotal evidence. One of the big things with science is that correlation does not imply causality. Think of the thousands o sport climbers out there that climb regularly that take very little risk. Boulderers rarely could end there life by their activities, but might subject themselves to serious risk. Many soloists have their climbs wired before they attempt them and the same with hedpoints. If they wanted to kill themselves why would they practice. There are a few people out there that are doing things way over their head that may be suicidal, but I don't think that is the norm. I would go on to say that many of the people that die doing risky things were not intending to kill themselves theyjust make a mistake in judgement. Just my two cents.
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Mar 27, 2010 - 07:27pm PT
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Karen, Laurie & Base:
Thanks for your kind words and input. Thanks for the prayers also! It seems like I have discussed the ECT with the doctors in the past; they seemed to think it wouldn't benefit me; I can't remember why. Sometimes I feel like grabbing some 110V and give it a whirl!
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JOEY.F
Social climber
sebastopol
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Mar 27, 2010 - 08:15pm PT
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"Climbing is easy, it's living that's hard"
Spencer Tracy.
Well actually, he said it about Acting.
Brave Tobia,
Sending you good vibes, you send a lot of them back on the music thread.
And Wanda too...
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 27, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
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suicide grovels in my esteem,
for i exploit chaos right up to the screamin bitter fukin end where logic and reality finally rear their calm and demeaning smiles.
not before, though. do i consent. for i see no real life within the realms prescibed by my diluted and ill defined culture.
chaos rules my strides. i go. and i go. and i go.
its like that placement where nothing below can welcome a dynamic entry... but you continue onward, upward, beyondward into your hopes and dreams and conclusions of, the beyond. the future. the possibilities?
often though, im left teetering upon my soul's capacity, just stepping beyond that which it reluctantly invites,
then i scramble back across the... vital... plane, where life is. and dreams MAY BE.
one day, perhaps i will brace and race forth into a psychological or physical realm where i've not appropriate footage, and then,
bang.
the process that began our tribes story, will end mine.
but we'll see. you. and me. any my daughters. and all that which can't fit within a sentence, but guides us.
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Mar 27, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
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Glacier Point Needs a counselor to spot potential jumpers.
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Mar 27, 2010 - 10:07pm PT
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Tobia so many in your situation. I feel your pain and will pray to God for you. How can we help you brother.
Jeff
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dipper
climber
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Mar 28, 2010 - 02:51am PT
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Jeff,
I have been reading your words for a long time.
Long ago, back on rec.climbing, I could not believe most everything you wrote.
Little did I know what you were experiencing in your head.
I wish you well in your struggle.
You are not alone.
Have you ever visited the website "PostSecret.com"?
http://postsecret.blogspot.com/
You may find drivel. You may find solace.
It gets updated each sunday with 20 new secrets sent in by folks from all over.
Sometimes Frank updates it late Sat. night.
What is written below is up there now.
Cheers,
Cinclus mexicanus tequilas
-----Letter
Dear Frank
I thought about sending a postcard but wanted to share a story without anonymity. I'm a senior at Cornell University and at your PostSecret Event here two years ago, I shared the following secret: "My main motivation for applying to the PhD program in Clinical Psychology was to honor the memory of my three cousins who took their lives by acquiring the training to help alleviate the despair of others."
Recently I received an offer of admission to the USUHS in Bethesda, Maryland where I will be joining the Suicide Behavior and Prevention Laboratory. As soon as I received that offer, I remembered the secret I shared with the audience that night and how deeply meaningful it will be to follow through.
It makes me smile to know I'll be moving so close to where all the secrets are sent and being only a few miles away from someone breaking down barriers in the mental health field in a way science has yet to discover.
-Jen Bakalar
-----Response
I still have good memories of the Cornell PostSecret Event in 2008. And being a basketball fan I enjoyed watching Cornell's team go deep in the NCAAs last week. But I've also been distressed to see the lopsided media coverage of student basketball compared to the half dozen student suicides at Cornell this year.
According to Yahoo, 7,573 news stories were written about Cornell Basketball in the past 30 days. During that same period, only 275 stories were written about the six Cornell students who took their own lives.
Suicide is a secret that we collectively keep from ourselves. But if we can find the courage to tell the painful stories, together, we can take the actions that will bring help and hope to those of us who suffer in silence.
This year over 1,000 college students will kill themselves. March is the month with the highest rate of suicides. Here are five ways you can fight back today.
1. Support the Pick-Up-The-Phone 30-City Tour with headliner Blue October.
2. Tell your story (or your friend's story) and learn how Active Minds can help you fight suicide at your school.
3. Join Congressman Kennedy, HopeLine founder Reese Butler, Jamie Tworkowski and myself in Washington DC, April 12th, for the 6th Annual National HopeLine Network Capital Hill Press Conference.
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