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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
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Survival, I believe that the great roof is 5.13 and changing corners is 5.14-. But I don't think that the nose will see the first free solo. It seems like free rider (12d) or salathe (5.13b) are more likely.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
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Hello Ed,
Nice post.
I like what Roger Breedlove said
while I understand why climbers solo hard, I don't understand why anyone else thinks it is cool.
AND I liked what Bachar always said.
Always use a rope
Nothing left for me to say...
Mike
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:38pm PT
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brother Hank,
didn't think you'd require a smiley face...
it was your "hobo dickcheese" comment ONLY that was next level. NEXT LEVEL IMAGERY.
The rest of your post I agree with.
Chill bruddah. fer realz.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:54pm PT
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I don't know Ed. Read his essays before they got collected into that book, and he was one of the authors important in changing climbing's literary culture as well as an important climber.
The post just adds to the sideshow atmosphere. I have no idea if Honnold is seriously planning an El Cap solo (let alone The Nose), but the post as written is going to crank up the peanut gallery for hand-wringing, ranting, and whatever. Worse, since so many STers are also Yos adjacent, it might drive even more groundmonkeys out into the Meadows. Certainly it does nothing to demystify the spectacle.
Eventually, I suppose El Cap Meadows will be our version of Kleine Scheidegg 1938, but without the bad weather and all that unfortunate Nazi business.
I agree with Peter-- this post would have been at least as effective and less problematic had it been couched in generic terms.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 19, 2010 - 05:01pm PT
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I hope Alex Honnold is NOT reading this. The free solos are inspirational, but really must come from within.
I kind of agree with Ed though (hi Ed, we met at the base of El Cap), but after all, this is just the taco, a bunch of codgers cutting farts and arguing about which wine is best served with hobo dickcheese.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Mar 19, 2010 - 05:59pm PT
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I refuse to slice hobo dickcheese sashimi.
Might it be mistaken for wasabi?
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slidingmike
climber
CA
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Mar 19, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
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Some parts of this discussion remind of one of my favorite songs by the great Cat: Father & Son
It's not time to make a change,
Just relax, take it easy.
You're still young, that's your fault,
There's so much you have to know.
Find a girl, settle down,
If you want you can marry.
Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy.
I was once like you are now, and I know that it's not easy,
To be calm when you've found something going on.
But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.
//How can I try to explain, when I do he turns away again.
It's always been the same, same old story.
From the moment I could talk I was ordered to listen.
Now there's a way and I know that I have to go away.
I know I have to go.//
It's not time to make a change,
Just sit down, take it slowly.
You're still young, that's your fault,
There's so much you have to go through.
Find a girl, settle down,
if you want you can marry.
Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy.
//(Away Away Away, I know I have to
Make this decision alone - no)//
//All the times that I cried, keeping all the things I knew inside,
It's hard, but it's harder to ignore it.
If they were right, I'd agree, but it's them They know not me.
Now there's a way and I know that I have to go away.
I know I have to go.//
(Stay Stay Stay, Why must you go and
make this decision alone?)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Mar 19, 2010 - 06:26pm PT
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This is interesting. I really took interest, with some discomfort, in Drummond's post (I say this knowing that some discomfort was likely intentional on his part.) Peter Haan kind of summarized my feelings too, but there are two things he says which I take issue with...
I think it is questionable that free soloing El Cap is the next logical development in climbing or should be viewed as such. It would certainly be amazing, but a logical development? I'll be more impressed by a free ascent of Mescalito.
After 75 feet "everything is El Cap?" If that were the case then the first free solo would be old news...
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Mar 19, 2010 - 06:38pm PT
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Agree with Ksolem, was going to post up much the same. Logical steps in climbing are made possible by advances in gear; free soloing by its very nature is regressive. Apart from the potential fame and fortune of success, going up El Cap ropeless would remain a one-off stunt. How long would it be until it was repeated, and would it ultimately be anything more than vertical NASCAR?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 19, 2010 - 06:40pm PT
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Perhaps the most interesting and challenging, and poetic, first post ever to grace SuperTopo.
As I read it, Ed isn't saying to Alex "Don't solo" or even "don't solo El Cap". What he seems to be saying, to me, is that before doing anything of the sort Alex should carefully consider everything about it, and if he feels a need to do it, should only do it for himself. That is, pay no attention whatsoever to the real or imagined 'needs' of sponsors, the news media, the community, or others. Absolutely none. Just himself and his family. I've read a lot of what Ed has written, and met him a few times. He doesn't seem the sort who, even as a warrior of yesteryear, would say "don't solo".
It's notable that when Peter Croft was the first to solo Astroman, in 1987, no one knew he was doing it, or saw him. He did it solely for himself, and if I remember the story rightly, the first person he talked to about it was JB at the deli, afterward.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Mar 19, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
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Logical steps in climbing are made possible by advances in gear ??
I don't think we have gotten from 5.10-5.14 solely by gear alone. In fact, gear has had little to do with it. Better training and new techniques have had a much bigger impact.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 19, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
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He's saying it for sure; ("don't solo El Cap"), in a veiled subconscious way.
There's no doubt.
Nothing wrong with that at all and it's just plain good ole human nature.
I wish someone would solo El Cap to put everyone in their place.
I don't agree with all this bullsh'it you have to do these things secretly and not have a camera and no one should be watching, etc etc etc.
Blah ........ why everyone so envious and jealous?
Because ....... of nihilism?
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Mar 19, 2010 - 06:53pm PT
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Logical steps in climbing are made possible by advances in gear ??
I don't think we have gotten from 5.10-5.14 solely by gear alone. In fact, gear has had little to do with it. Better training and new techniques have had a much bigger impact.
Yep, true, was thinking along the lines of shoes and clean pro, but how much in the way of training and technique is really going to lead to a new generation of big-wall free soloists? [If not for ropes and gear to hang from, how many of those new techniques would have evolved at all?]
Ultimately it's the same old fundamental ethics of climbing at all question, pressed to the most extreme possible set of circumstances "Climb if you will, but remember, etc."
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Mar 19, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
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oh man, even this great thread is turning negative. I generally try to stay quiet in such controversies, but if anything personally I found Peter H's comment way off base. I find Ed's OP a statement from deep affection and coming from deep experience with life. If only ST had more wisdom like his. So speaking from the heart is now "sensationalistic, kooky, and repugnant". For myself I find such shallow critique to be repugnant - kind of ruined my day.
Lets keep in mind, Alex made a movie of his solos. While I hesitantly admire what he's done he certainly can't expect to remain incognito when his feats of daring are plastered all over youtube. The Telegram was no doubt addressed to Honnold, but obviously applies to everyone and anyone who take extreme risks.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Mar 19, 2010 - 07:12pm PT
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I agree with the sentiment that one should push themselves, not be pushed to push the line.
As far as next logical development, heck climbing isn't logical at al. For whatever reason, I do see a free solo of El Cap as a milestone that is the next step of opening minds to what is possible. I don't know why this is so, as obviously cratering from El Cap will kill one just as sure as cratering off of Half Dome. But I detect from others comments that there is a similar feeling of, free soloing El Cap, no way man.
Perhaps it's the concern not so much that it isn't possible, but that someone would break the boundry of what we consider impossible. It's nice to think that there are still some challenges that are not only beyond us, but beyond all. And when that breakthrough occurs, to where all will be possible with enough commitment, training and willingness to risk it, well, in a way that is a shame.
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Gene
Social climber
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Mar 19, 2010 - 07:14pm PT
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Mighty Hiker & Rockermike,
You get it. Look at Ed’s phrases:
Paparazzi
audiences everywhere
the invisible camera man
stunned by the guffaws of the audiences
a free, un-roped solo climb of El Capitan would provide them with a feast of fear, a pornographic center-fold
sufficiently sick to sate the violence consumer
Not your billboard, big screen, pedestal or headstone
The Honorable Order of the Deck Chairs
Keep your feet on the ground Alex, think about the children following in your footsteps…
Those children aren’t the biological progeny of Alex.
Alex is a metaphor for action without honest consideration of consequence. I take Ed's telegram to be about motive, not action.
El Cap free solo will be done.
g
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reddirt
climber
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Mar 19, 2010 - 07:35pm PT
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hehe, I too was making a mental list of my fav quotes from this thread.
I wish someone would solo El Cap to put everyone in their place.
takes the cake
OMG I've become one of those what-Werner-said people.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
The beckoning silence
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Mar 19, 2010 - 07:44pm PT
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Didn't James T. Kirk solo something on El Cap? Oh that's right, he fell... OK, got that out of the way. :-) I looked for the video, but couldn't find it. But I don't think that would add to this thread anyway.
I don't necessarily think this thread is going negative. There's conflict, disagreement, yes. But I'm just seeing a range of views and pretty much all are thoughtful and well stated. I keep seeing new perspectives and am enjoying the process of the discussion getting hashed out.
Eric
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Mar 19, 2010 - 07:48pm PT
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Werner you stated a while back that freerider has been soloed already, by someone wishing no recognition for the deed ... i believed you but guess it's not the case
Honnolds doing it for the cameras, Croft wasn't like that
this will end badly
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