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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Feb 22, 2010 - 01:47pm PT
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I applaud weschrist for his gratuitous WOS comment. Bravo!!!
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Feb 22, 2010 - 01:47pm PT
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No problem when the heat packers are responsible gun owners protecting themselves in AK.
The problem is where some trigger happy camper in upper pines sees a bear approaching a cooler and decides its a life threating situation and lets loose with his .45.
Seen it done in a USFS campground in AZ.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Feb 22, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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"Can one of you Yankees enlighten me on this?" I'd answer this but he's obviously talking to one of y'all.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Feb 22, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
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"The problem is where some trigger happy camper in upper pines sees a bear approaching a cooler and decides its a life threating situation and lets loose with his .45."
That's what we have Federal Prisons for.
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Rich Graziano
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Feb 22, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
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Hmmm...maybe we can keep those damn pesky bears in the Valley from breaking into our pigs now! <yeah...my tongue is in mi cheek>
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 22, 2010 - 01:55pm PT
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The answer to the bear problem in the Valley and other NP's is too get rid of the roads. Difficult access would be great for the animals AND for the few humans who took the effort.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
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Feb 22, 2010 - 01:56pm PT
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Who will be first to pack heat on a El Cap Trade Route.
Some Eurotrash tries to pass you in the Stove Legs.
Juan
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Feb 22, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
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I'd answer this but he's obviously talking to one of y'all.
Damn right. We're talking about what'll stop a bear here, not what'll blow the enging out of an ATF agent's car when you're running white lightning through the Cubmerland Gap.
But seriously, I am curious about this. Like I said, I'm all for being able to carry when I'm in serious bear country, but I kinda worry about everybody else carrying.
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
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The courts have basically ruled that a "militia" can apply to everyone.
This has me scratching my head, but I'm not a Constitutional scholar, so I'll have to give them the benefit of the doubt.
If you ask me, the definition of "arms" is the more interesting question anyway.
If the authors of the Constitution could have had any idea how far military technology would progress, they may have been more careful with their words.
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Shimanilami
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:05pm PT
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I suppose I'll have to think twice the next time I feel the urge to roam the Upper Pines in my bear costume.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
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Where does one draw the line with "heat". Should we be allowed to carry automatic weapons?
If we can't and the bad guy does aren't we out gunned. Should we be allowed to drive a tank into the park? They're certainly bear proof! How about nuke tipped artillery shells are they allowed? What weapons are not allowed? And if any weapon is not allowed doesn't that violate the 2nd amendment?
This is the most difficult question 2nd amendment advocates deal with because if you can draw the line somewhere you can draw it any where!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:15pm PT
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Serving in the military convinced me that while there is certainly a place for weapons sensible regulation of there use is critical. This country is light years away from a comprehensive set of regulations that is reasonable for ALL members of society.
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:15pm PT
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"We have a Democratic president, a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate, and we're passing more gun legislation than when there was a Republican in the White House," said Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), a gun-control advocate. "It's disappointing."
May 21, 2009
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:17pm PT
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Norman Clyde carried a gun wherever he went...and that means?
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:34pm PT
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FM,
instead of a gun I think you need a gri gri.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:34pm PT
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LEB,
Get a life, go fall of a rock...
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UncleDoug
Mountain climber
Places unkown
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:34pm PT
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Making firearms illegal will be just about as effective as keeping people from smoking pot by virtue of its illegal status. Many of you here smoke like chimneys yet you live in places where (other than for medicinal use) the substance is not, in fact, legal. Did/does that stop any of you hardcore potheads?
This is the most lucid and sound argument I've heard yet out of ya LEB.
Right on!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:50pm PT
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That wilderness still exists North of the border. Yes, and we're getting more than a little tired of American (and Germans, and others) coming here to live out their frontier fantasies. Whether it's hunting or snowmobiling or survivalism or whatever - piss off. An ugly combination of testosterone poisoning, adequacy issues, and general insecurity. And Canadians 'get' Americans' frequent lack of knowledge and understanding of other countries and cultures better than most.
Granted, bears do very rarely attack, maul and even kills humans. (Unlike Rokjox and Jennie's fantasy wolves.) Polar bears, grizzlies, blacks. As do cougars. But only in Canada, Alaska, and the northwest US, and even there the real numbers are trivial. A few fatalities every year, if that. There is greater danger from lightning and dog attacks (in the outdoors) - exceptions don't prove anything.
I've worked in the bush several summers, based in camps that could only be reached by air. We had rifles in camp. Once campmates were treed for a day by a bear. Both black and grizzly bears were regularly seen - part of their territory. And I've spent lots of time in the mountains of B.C., where real wilderness starts not far north of Vancouver. I've often seen black bears, and occasionally grizzlies. Mostly hightailing it the other direction, a few times they hung around and even stood up to check us out. NBHD - it's their neighbourhood, not mine. I carry pepper spray, but have never had to take it out let alone use it.
I've also had one friend killed by a grizzly, and another mauled by one.
As for guns - well, a higher percentage of Canadians own guns than in the US. Mostly rifles and shot guns, for hunting animals. Handgun ownership is unusual, and fortunately heavily limited. Few Canadians have fantasies about defending themselves against their government, or the declining incidence of violent crime. We are greatly pissed off at Americans who bring guns here, especially those that are smuggled in as a side-effect of the drug trade. Even though the drug dealers mostly cap each other, it's still messy.
Despite the higher rate of gun ownership, gun violence in Canada is about 10% the rate of that in the US, as it is in most civilized countries. And most gun violence here is suicide, or (unfortunately) intra-family.
I can imagine the mayhem in your parks as people like LEB decimate the squirrel population... A handgun isn't much use against a polar bear or grizzly, or a cougar that jumps you from behind anyway - even in the hands of someone competent and trained to use it.
Canada successfully defended itself against the wicked Yankee imperialist invaders in 1776 - 83, and again in 1812 - 14. So no need to make it best of three. And Canada's human and economic losses in World War I (particularly) and World War II were on a par or exceeded those of the US, as a percentage of population and economy.
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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Feb 22, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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Why is it that some folks cannot have a conversation about politics without labeling others a "liberal?"
When someone even hints at offering a contradictory opinion (even to be devil's advocate), then they are automatically branded with this label.
News Flash: Liberal is not a bad word. It's based on the Latin word for "freedom," which I think has something to do with the founding principles of our country (for us Americans, at least...)
Not everyone is always on the left or always on the right in their opinions. Just because Rush Limbaugh and Fox news presents the world this way doesn't mean that we have to mimic them.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Currently in San Diego
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Feb 22, 2010 - 03:05pm PT
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I frequently travel with a shotgun and I feel that if you do so appropriately (quietly and keeping it reasonably stowed unless the unlikely need for its service presents itself) it shouldnt be an issue.
Those who object to guns won't know its there and those who dont wont be giving you atta boys either. Meanwhile, you can relax knowing its there if you need it but it wont create drama of its own accord.
I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it; I anticipate its use being to frighten away an animal who is better adapted than I to its environment and secondly to give pause to some of the ne'er do wells who might also be roaming about.
Handguns in National Parks, we could probably do without.
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