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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2010 - 03:01am PT
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Cheers, Lissiehoya! God bless and good night!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 12, 2010 - 04:23am PT
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A divorced, long-hair, doper, republican catholic - not quite a polygamist, log cabin republican baptist - but you do have to admit that it is a bit of a strech for the church. And all-in-all, doesn't it bring the validity of the whole premise into question if religions are as interchangeable as shopping for a new coat? Also kind of a paradox to simultaneously bag on grand institutions politically while affiliating with them socially given the realworld distinctions between them are quite negligible in the abstract.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 12, 2010 - 08:28am PT
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Lissiehoya-
The "White Robed Benedictines" from what I can understand, come from the Old Catholic tradition and are in communion with Utrecht and the Anglicans and not Rome..
The Jansenists sound like Catholic Calvinists as for example these quotes from Wikipedia:
Jansen emphasised a particular reading of Augustine's idea of efficacious grace which stressed that only a certain portion of humanity were predestined to be saved.
Jansen’s opponents (mainly Jesuits) condemned his teachings for their alleged similarities to Calvinism (though, unlike Calvinism, Jansen rejected the doctrine of assurance and taught that even the justified could lose their salvation).
All of it pretty obscure we must admit.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Mar 12, 2010 - 12:40pm PT
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You know why Lutherans don't take part in orgies?
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Because they'd have to send out too many thank you cards.
(apologies to Garrison Keillor-he targeted Episcopalians)
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pc
climber
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Mar 12, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
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A couple of tips. (One of my brother's is a Catholic priest, runs a convent in Mexico, and is THE MOST conservative variety of the cloth)
a) Don't get married in the Catholic Church. That way they won't care when you get divorced ;)
b) Baptism in the Lutheran church is acceptable to Catholics. They're...like...homies.
c) There are more liberal Catholic Churches you can go to and be accepted. The one in Santa Cruz on West Clif Dr. is a good example. All depends on the priest.
My mother's been a devout Catholic her entire life, she's 89 now, but gave up going to church 3 years ago when their long time priest retired and was replaced by a hate spewing, conservative, narrow minded, nutcase of a priest. She now just meets her friends for coffee everyday after morning mass. Turns out the most important part of the church, any church, is the social support and network. Coffee with her friends had always been the most important and irreplaceable part. Go where you get nonjudgemental support.
Good luck,
p(athiest but quite social)c
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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Mar 12, 2010 - 01:11pm PT
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Lissiehoya,
I know a little bit about the White Robed Monks (I'm the one that introduced them to this thread). I don't think they would consider themselves to be Calvinists.
If you are sincerely interested in learning more, email them. Father Robert loves to teach, and you'll get plenty of information.
Dave
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Mar 12, 2010 - 01:33pm PT
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Hey Blue,
"...you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul."
Do this and let Him sort it(all things) out.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
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Thanks guys. I've talked with the pastor at the Lutheran church and he seems like a good guy. My wife took my son to mass there last weekend and said it was all good.
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Lissiehoya
climber
Saint Louis, MO
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Mar 12, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
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I didn't argue that the White Robed Monks were Calvinists. In spite of what wikipedia says (and Dale Van Kley would want to argue), Jasenists are not Calvinists. I'm saying, based on what they say about their own history and the "Old Catholic" description, that I suspect that they are connected to the (heretical!) Jansenist church at Utrecht. I'm sure I *could* do the archival research to find out, but since it's only tangentially related to my research interests, I won't.
That said, they are definitely not in communion with the Catholic Church so if bluering ever wants to go back, sacraments performed by them may or may not be considered valid. But since he's already found a Lutheran church to perform the service, it's a moot point.
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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Mar 12, 2010 - 04:41pm PT
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Ok. I probably missed that point. This discussion is probably a level or two beyond my amateur interest in world religion.
But seriously, if you have any questions about the Monks, email them.
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