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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Jan 10, 2010 - 03:33pm PT
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TC asked about bike riding in Europe vs USA.
Having done about 30 sell-supported bike tours in Europe and ridden in over fifteen countries I would say that it depends on where you ride and on what roads you ride. The Austrians drive much like Americans and seem to have little respect for cyclists. Spain has a really bad problem with cyclists getting hit by cars. Italy is a crap shoot, especially south of Rome. Riding in the Naples/Sorrento area is like being in a war zone.
Having said all that, on the smaller, less-traveled roads like in the mountains or out in the countryside, the Europeans, in general, do seem to give cyclists more respect and pass with care.
Bruce
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Apr 27, 2010 - 12:25am PT
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A sideways safety flag is supposed to be good for getting motorists go give you a little room. They don't seem to want to scrape their cars on your flag.
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jbar
Mountain climber
urasymptote
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Apr 27, 2010 - 01:03am PT
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I rarely ride on the road anymore because there just isn't anywhere near me that's safe. I've had a car pass me while I was moving very fast then turn into a parking lot in front of me causing me to slam into and slide all the way down the car taking out the side mirror with my elbow en route. Luckily the driver was very sorry and happened to be a cute massage therapist. I was riding a century once when a driver became aggrivated about us blocking the road and began to erratically pass at high speed while honking their horn. They forced a rider ahead of me off the road and into a stand of trees. Unfortunately for the driver we had a local "biker" club riding escort for us and they took it kinda personal.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2010 - 01:36am PT
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Hey Ed, did you get my email about possible snake slab photos?
-I'll listen to the ATC piece shortly
BTW, naked bike riding isn't all it's cracked up to be. But when on the playa....
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 27, 2010 - 02:35am PT
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I just saw this thread. There are plenty of excellent roads to ride on here. In 1979, I rode from Fresno to the Valley on Highway 41. I did it a few days after Labor Day, and had very little traffic issues. There are a great many more commuters from at least Bass Lake down now, however, so I doubt that I'll do it again. I also used to ride from our family's Yosemite West cabin to the Valley in later years but, alas, we own the cabin no longer.
I must, however, agree with TomTom's post. I'm extremely attentive for cyclists in the foothills and mountains, because I do so much riding there myself, but there are way too many cyclists that give the rest of us a bad name. A little defensive riding and common courtesy would go a long way. I particularly cringe when I see fellow riders going two or three abreast on mountain roads, and making no effort to get out of the way when cars inevitably get behind them. I think of them when I get flipped off by some local, despite the fact that I'm riding in a bike lane.
John
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Apr 27, 2010 - 10:23am PT
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I have always told my wife most likely I will die on my 4.5 mile bike commute to work every day. The risks people are willing to take with MY life is ridiculous even though I always ride in the bike line, as far to the right as possible, and complete stop at all stop signs.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 27, 2010 - 11:36am PT
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I quit riding around SoCal - too many as#@&%es. Wait, make that fuking as#@&%es!
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Apr 27, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
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Urban riding sucks, plane and simple. No matter what the rules of the road, the reality is the rider always looses in contact with a vehicle, so you have to hyper attentive, expect bonehead moves, and most importantly keep yourself from contacting vehicles.
Even though I did some stupid stuff during urban rides, the only time I contacted a vehicle would have been easily avoided if I'd been more cautious. I was rolling up to an intersection with a red, then it turned green before I reached the intersection. I was riding even with a car that was accelerating, right in his blind spot, and he turned into the market just after the intersection. Fortunately he was making a slow turn, and I dropped a loud enough F bomb that he came to a stop before running me over. In hindsight, I shouldn't have allowed myself to get into his blindspot.
Riding in the hills above Berkley, awesome, put lots of miles on the bike up there. Riding in downtown, did that a couple of times, to be avoided.
Honestly for a daily commute I'd look at lengthening your ride to avoid paticularly bad spots. Just not worth putting yourself in that risk and stress. The good thing about biking is you can take streets that aren't as car friendly and don't really give up that much time on a bike.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Apr 27, 2010 - 02:29pm PT
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rotten johnny:
try cranking your neck when you hear a car approaching and give the driver a look...
TGT:
There's more to it than that,
If you don't make eye contact , they didn't see you.
Something I figured out back in my motorcycle days.
Oblivious old lady's and minivan moms are as, or more dangerous than the agro azzholes.
And I say when it gets looking like it might get a little 'touchy/feely' I will stick my arm out and point right at the driver and mouth words like 'Don't you hit me damnit'.
Seems to make a huge difference in the driver's focus!
~~~~~~~~~
I met a gal here in Vegas that was looking for a biking partner. She asked two questions right up front. "What kind of spandex riding suit do you wear, maybe I have seen you out?" and "What type of riding do you do/like the most?"
My reply "I haven't owned/worn spandex since the early 80's and in the metro area I would call my riding URBAN OFF ROAD. I don't think we would work out as riding partners!"
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Apr 27, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
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you need a large, cruiser type seat for naked bike riding, otherwise it sure isn't comfortable.
I hear it's awkward for the ladies no matter what....
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cowpoke
climber
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Apr 27, 2010 - 07:00pm PT
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Urban riding sucks, plane and simple. I disagree, for precisely the reason Pate points out. If (when?) injured during my commute, I'm sure I'll change my tune. For now, however, it's the reason I'm able to tolerate living in an urban environment...the car was killing me and the ride gives me a very similar buzz to climbing a scary route.
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zeth0101
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Apr 27, 2010 - 07:07pm PT
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shit nowadays i just keep some small rocks in my pocket whenever i bike and when someone steps out of their boundaries with their car they get pelted hard. I've been hit 6 times in the past year. ALL IN BERKELEY. some close calls in Oakland but the snobs in Berkeley are the worst. 2 months ago a woman ran a red light to intentionally hit me after she yelled ant me and i yelled some sh#t back. she drove off and got away. i'll never bike with an empty pocket again. don't hit me because i'll likely break your window and if i catch you after you drive off... well that's another story.
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james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Apr 27, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
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I for one find the sport of road riding odd. I find it par with climbing while a crowd at the top of the crag trundles 3,000 lb boulders at you.
"Share the Road", Share the expenses. A tax on any "road bike" purchased to pay for bike lanes and training courses for riders to drive home the idea of single file. Once the concept of single file is understood a second course in the concept of stop signs and how they relate to riders would be mandatory.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 27, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
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james Colborn my income taxes state and federal already pay for my right to ride roads here in CA, bike lane or not. I have the same rights on my bike as any one in their car does. Don't you dare try and double tax me, and if any one needs educating, it's most morons in their cars-oh, but wait, don't get me started.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Apr 27, 2010 - 09:10pm PT
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Want to be treated like a car? Then go as fast as one...thats all I'm asking. I ride around town all the time and just assume everyones out to kill me in a car, thats the reason I'm still alive.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Apr 28, 2010 - 12:39am PT
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I think a lot of american motorists are out in their own delusional world detached from any semblance of reality...therefore, running over a human being on a bike is no big deal for them....cyclists are just a nuisance to them...i always slow down when bikees are crowding the road...especially if a nice looking lady is riding....Bob roll told me he use to carry rocks in his jersey when he rode in the bay area....good idea! rj
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james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Apr 28, 2010 - 01:52am PT
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The "reality" is that you are riding on the road, cars go on the road, it's dangerous.
On any summer day hundreds of bikers ride up Donner Summit and then once to the top they take a victory lap back down. I can count the number of times on one hand that I've seen riders ride single file or for that matter acknowledge that a 5,000 lb truck is coming up behind them. I've also had riders pass me on the way down. Once again, you are on the road, it's dangerous, follow the rules, just like you expect those moron drivers to do.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 28, 2010 - 02:34am PT
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the road doesn't have to be dangerous... motorists and bicyclists could share the road. I find that motorists often believe that the bicyclist is really not an intended user of the roads.
Does it really matter if you have to slow down behind a bicyclist for a 100 yards?
Or be cautious while driving on a windy mountain road?
Or do the speed limit, and obey the double-yellow line?
Motorists have the advantage of size in any encounter, and can intimidate bicyclists, and do, to get their way on the roads. Where I bike, the ratio on my commute to work, 6 miles, is roughly 1 bike to 300 cars. I can never understand why motorists are so angry at so few bicyclists... but many are.
When I drive I try to be very careful around bicyclists, as I would hope motorists would be to me when I bike. Don't crowd them, slow down behind them if they are taking up the road (probably for some good reason like a bad edge, glass, etc) and try not to cut them off by racing around them and turning in front of them. It's not going to delay me very much on my drive, and it's safer for them.
When I bike I try to be defensive, and anticipate being out of the motorists' way, but sometimes you have to take the lane. When you do, it would be nice to have the motorists respect that and slow down behind you for just the short time you need to.
Sharing the road does not mean tolerating the existence of the other users as long as they don't get in your way.
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