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Brock Wagstaff
Trad climber
Larkspur
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May 24, 2010 - 06:08pm PT
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If you rent the movie watch the "making of" section. It would appear that nearly all of the climbing scenes, including the storms, avalanches, chopping steps, etc., were done with the magic of CG. They created the "wall" in a studio and filled in the background. Amazingly realistic...
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Fletcher
Trad climber
not very much, recently.
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May 24, 2010 - 06:15pm PT
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It reminded me of the opening scene of Vertical Limit and was the point at which I left the theater.
Ah Del... You missed out on so much great filmmaking by leaving at that point. :-) For me Vertical Limit is in the category of being so bad, it becomes camp and as a result, entertaining.
I also just noticed the film is available on Netflix. Rather than watching it on my computer, I think this one is worth watching on DVD with a larger screen. I look forward to it.
Eric
EDIT: Ah yes, I did misunderstand. Thanks for clarifying Del.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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May 24, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
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I think maybe they were trying to remake the point that crampons were somewhat new, or not widely used in the 30's? Harrer didn't have them right? While it seems crazy nowadays, those guys were used to cutting steps.
Remember, though, that Harrer was Austrian, and the Germans had crampons. Can't recall the quote (its a classic quote!), but, in the White Spider book Harrer mentions how quickly the Germans caught them on the ice field.
Even in Leni's book, "Kampf und Schnee und Eis" (1933), the German climbers in that book are sporting crampons (and appear to be front pointing, even).
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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May 24, 2010 - 08:11pm PT
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You can't really see if he has crampons on or not in this photo. I think del cross is correct RE "icicles hanging from Kurz's crampons" in the White Spider. How about Sedlmeyer & Mehringer...did they have crampons?
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
OR
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May 24, 2010 - 10:57pm PT
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I ran out the door of my house when I saw it was on the big screen here in Bend, Oregon. Given the problems in the details mentioned and the amped up romance, I still thought it was an absolutely incredible film achievement, definitely bringing to life the times and the wall and connecting deep with the hundreds of times I've played this amazing story in my head since reading "The White Spider" as a teenager.
can't wait to see the Jeff Lowe story.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 25, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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While we are all knocking the love interest, did Toni Kurz or Hinterstoisser have a wife/girl friend? Kids?
I guess since they fictionalized so much of the story, it's tough to know what the reality was for those guys.
Who were these guys?
I'm sorry I ask so many questions and don't chime in with any answers.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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May 25, 2010 - 12:37am PT
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Both Toni Kurz (1913-1936) & Andreas Hinterstoisser (1914-1936) were Bavarian climbers. Kurz was from Berchtesgaden and Hinterstoisser was born in the same town where my wife grew up, Bad Reichenhall. Hinterstoisser helped develop the technique of tension traverses.
Here's a list of their 1st ascents from German Wikipedia:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Kurz
Untersberg:
* 1934 Südwestwand des Berchtesgadener Hochthrons
* 1936 Gerade Pfeilersüdwand des Berchtesgadener Hochthrons
Reiter Alm:
* 1935 Wartsteinkante
* 1936 Südkante des Großen Mühlsturzhorns
Watzmann:
* 1935 Direkte Südkante
Eiger-Nordwand
* Juli 1936 unsuccessful Eiger-Nordwand attempt.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 25, 2010 - 12:46am PT
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i saw this movie at UCLA recenty--recommended. i don't know if toni's love interest is fictional, but it becomes a wonderful part of this tragic story.
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pocoloco1
Mountain climber
The Chihuahua Desert
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May 25, 2010 - 01:00am PT
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At the end of the movie.
“I’m not going back to Berlin”
“No, why not?”
“Because their are to many people like you in Berlin”
Or something like that, she spit the bit ...liberation..the mountains will do that to ya...if your lucky.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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May 25, 2010 - 01:20am PT
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but the way she free soloed up to a ledge below where Kurz was hanging and spent the night there...sorry but that was too much for me
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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May 25, 2010 - 01:21am PT
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Im watching it right now through my xbox/ netflix. Awesome so far...
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Rudder
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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May 25, 2010 - 01:24am PT
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Saw it, loved it. Now when we run into problems at work we say, "Seems pretty hard but it would be a yawner for Toni Kurz."
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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May 25, 2010 - 01:36am PT
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Note that nearly all the early attempts of the Eiger Nordwand were all done by Germans and Austrians and the 1st successful ascent was a German-Austrian team. The Swiss considered it insanity to climb the Nordwand at that time.
But times have changed. In 2009 Swiss alpinist Ueli Steck raced up the Nordwand at a pace of 17 meters/minute
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 26, 2010 - 09:44am PT
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just a note here, since i've dabbled in film and have been in the hollywood fringe for years.
it used to bother me more when filmmakers play fast and loose with historical accuracy. perhaps that's because so few people get their history from any other source. i read die weiße spinne (the white spider) in german back in graduate school--really helped me get started on that language and gave me a taste of the early days of our sport. i had no problem with this film, and i think toni's love interest makes it what it is--would have been nothing but a jock story otherwise. she's the real protagonist here.
william shakespeare put a lot of history into fiction, popularized it, and i'm sure played fast and loose with lots of facts. but he also made it come alive, and probably led more than a few people into the passion of studying history.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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May 26, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
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OK fair enough Tony but what about her free soloing to Kurz?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 26, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
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hey there all, say... i never see movies now adays.. and rarely did before these times, as well... but, i must say:
thanks to all you climbers who saw this and chipped in climbling notes, and such, as to how it was for you, and as to history and such...
very sad, as to the outcome for that bold team... sad that they could not have done it on there own time frame, and in their own gut-manner, instead of due to propaganda pitche and war, etc... a climbers personal gut-feeling as to timeing, plays so much into the climb, as, they are the ones that must do it, not those daring them...
well, just wanted to say thanks for your loyal output as to truth, here... dont know if i will ever see it around, or get to see it, but now i will know how it fared and such, and will have learned history from links mentioned, too, and such...
oh my---sure would enjoy to see jello's movie project...
:)
onward and upward, to understanding what is correct, as to climbing, in whatever ways others try to project it...
thanks guys...
:)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 26, 2010 - 11:39pm PT
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hey there...say, one added thought... (not meaning to be rude, just seeing how things seem to go, in the world of film, and viewers and such)
oh my... if film makers can't even film fiction-books "facts", to correctly MATCH the book-events and endings, i reckon we just can't trust them make life events true to any historical life or life history book "facts" either...
too much vision into another realm they must have, so it seems...
though of course, the artistic beauty may still show, and folks accept the
flims, then, as they trust sthe beauty of the scenery and never wonder more about the story, unless they HAVE read the book, or knew of the history facts, already...
once again, i remember lane frost, and i am glad that i felt odd about a fews thaings that did not measure up in that movie... seeking the real facts, then, bore witness, andi was glad that i took the time to learn...
so, perhaps, in some ways, just the fact that a movie IS made, has some merit, as, signpost wise, we can seek out the trail of truth, if we are such folks to do so...
for those that don't, though, the trail just leads on to completely different destination, that may one day reveal itself as such, or not...
once again, thanks for all the neat feed back here..
:)
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 28, 2010 - 08:20pm PT
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trad, you're judging the movie from the point of view of an expert climber. the movie was made for general audiences, very few knowing the first thing about climbing.
i was invited to a climber's preview of cliffhanger when it came out. beautiful look at the dolomites, where i have since climbed, but most of us spent the whole movie roaring about the dumb things stallone was doing--things climbers never do. stallone spent the whole movie freesoloing around wearing a harness with about $163 worth of climbshop gear dangling from it--basically jewelry to accentuate his body. it was a hoot, but to the fellow's credit, they say he did all his own stunts despite being scared to death of heights.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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May 28, 2010 - 10:49pm PT
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gullich did most/all of the climbing scenes for stallone in cliffhanger
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 29, 2010 - 08:17am PT
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wasn't the buzz i heard, trad, but my sources aren't always reliable. if it sounds like a good rumor, i generally repeat it. sly did quite a lot of parading his overdone body on dolomite rock. how can his fans get past that bloodhound face?
i know bob gaines had a big gig in the production, and the plot was loosely based on largo's writeup of the drug courier that crashed in yosemite backcountry.
around that time, my climbing club got a call for a woman to do a little stunt work. basically she had to go out a window about five stories up and do some 5.0 buildering and go back in another window. turned out to be an hour's work for $10,000. this rumor is fairly reliable since the whole club talked about it for years. to say they put on climbing harnesses and paraded daily down hollywood boulevard would be stretching it, but it sure got our hopes up.
i think the best disclaimer would be: based on real rumors.
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