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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 17, 2009 - 10:34pm PT
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Rokjox,
I'm listening. I would like to get more into HAM someday, I certainly do not use my license level to its full advantage although it was the easiest level to get (no code).
Everyone,
Another thing is, several here can get very personal when argueing, and that just isn't ever gonna work out very well. I'd say stay away from ad hominen personal attacks, argue just the facts everyone.
The fact remains, just limiting it to flight 77 and the phone call by Barbara Olson to her husband, can be utterly debunked as David Ray Griffin does so well. It didn't happen, yet the OCT says it did. This is just one more hard fact that debunks flight 77 slamming into the Pentagon.
It was the massive lies of 9-11-01 and all the obvious false claims regarding flight 77 and the little original hole in the Pentagon before the roof collapsed and the spotless "Pentalawn" that you could play golf on that first told me, "No way. It didn't happen like the government said it did. They are lying." As time goes on we can blow all the story apart regarding the OCT and falsify nearly everything. Once again, we do not have to prove anything. All we have to do is just falsify the OCT, that it can not be true. We have done that and more. That is what you do in science. That is how science works. We do not have to prove what happened to the original planes. We do not have to prove what happened to the original passengers. Would we like to know? Sure, of course we would. We would like to know the whole truth, and so would the world.
It did not happen the way they say it happened. So the government is lying and playing cover-up. There is no other conclusion. We need a thorough and international independent investigation, since the implications and ramifications of what happened 9-11-2001 are grave and massive and concern everyone World-wide. Much of the World has woken-up to the fact of 9-11-01 LIHOP/MIHOP, but here in the US we have many with their head buried deep in the sand.
Maybe they don't want to admit and face up to the monster we have become. We can stop it. It doesn't have to be this way. The first step to recoverying is admitting you have a problem.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Currently in San Diego
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Dec 17, 2009 - 10:44pm PT
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Who is a Ham operator here?
I am still licensed as AL7something or other. got it when I was 13...14 yr ago. great fun it was. there's nothing quite as nice as morse code on the radio.
Sold my rig a while ago...i knew there had to be some ham climbers...climbing hams, what have you...
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habitat
climber
grass pass
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Dec 17, 2009 - 10:44pm PT
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I'm guessing if HALF the "men" in this country were HALF the MAN Jessie Ventura is we'd ALL be a LOT better off.
I LOVE Jessie Ventura.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Dec 18, 2009 - 01:51am PT
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The planes were flying at 29,000 and 30 something thousand when many of the calls were made.
Wrong Roks, the 2 flight UA93 cell phone calls were initiated at 2500 feet above ground. The rest were on GTE airphones
But thanks for proving that cell phone calls can be made at low altitude.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:15am PT
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Skip's not wrong, because he is "right"--and that's just the way it is, facts be dammed...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 18, 2009 - 10:45am PT
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Forgive the "me too" nature of this post, but with so much name calling some of the good stuff gets lost in the noise.
Even the "recordings" of the phone calls were weird. Transcripts at http://911review.org/brad.com/sept11_cell-phones/physics911_discussion2.html
One in particular goes "Mom? This is Mark Bingham"
Do you have to tell your MOM your last name?
That one was really good: I cannot imagine a "normal American" using his last name in a call to his mother. (The only reason I say "normal American" is perhaps other cultures say things differently, I have no idea.)
Any of the 9/11 conspiracy deniers want to comment?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 18, 2009 - 12:52pm PT
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So after all this ....
Who really dun it?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 18, 2009 - 12:54pm PT
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For the Holiday reading or a gift idea . . .
9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press (Paperback)
David Ray Griffin (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/11-Contradictions-Letter-Congress-Press/dp/1566567165/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261084607&sr=8-1
From Publishers Weekly
Griffin (The New Pearl Harbor), a 9/11 truth advocate, continues to explore the internal inconsistencies in the official version of the events of September 11, plumbing statements by the Bush administration for contradictions. Did President Bush race home from Florida immediately after hearing of the attacks? Yes, maintain officials. No, claim Griffin's sources; Bush dawdled for half an hour before making an unhurried drive to the airport. Most chapters concern matters of similarly modest importance, but readers will receive a few jolts. Could America have foreseen 9/11? Absolutely not, Bush spokesmen repeat—but Griffin quotes officials, security experts and military leaders who warned of terrorists commandeering planes. Was bin Laden responsible? Readers will be surprised by Griffin's finding that conclusive evidence is still pending; U.S. officials submit that bin Laden's prior orchestration of attacks is proof enough, but today bin Laden is on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list for directing several terrorist attacks—but not for 9/11. Although readers might be wont to dismiss this book as pure conspiracy theory, it succeeds as a searing and close reading of the events of September 11. (June)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
Review
"David Ray Griffin, writing specifically for members of Congress and the media, has presented the often incredible but true details of 25 major contradictions in the Bush administration's accounts of 9/11. This book, based on careful research but written in a fast-moving, readable style, blows apart the notion that The 9/11 Commission Report presents an accurate account of what happened on September 11. It makes crystal clear the need for a new investigation." -- Bill Christison, former senior CIA official
"So who cares that the 9/11 Commission chose to believe that Dick Cheney did not enter the White House bunker until "shortly before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58," twenty minutes after the strike on the Pentagon. Surely the vice president would not fib, so the Commission threw out the testimony of several eyewitnesses, including Norman Mineta, the transportation secretary. Mineta must have been making it all up when he testified that he joined Cheney in the bunker at about 9:20 and heard Cheney reaffirm an apparent stand-down order just before the Pentagon was struck. Such conflicting testimony is typical of the many serious "9/11 Contradictions" documented in David Ray Griffin's highly readable book. We need a truly independent investigation to put Cheney and Mineta under oath, along with the still unidentified "young man" who, Mineta reported, kept coming into the bunker and, after telling Cheney "the plane is ten miles out," asked Cheney whether "the orders still stand"----about 12 minutes before 125 people in the Pentagon were killed. What were those orders?" -- Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst and presidential briefer
"When the smoke finally cleared from the pile of rubble on September 11, 2001, we were left with a host of burning questions. The 9/11 Commission did not provide the answers, despite their extensive mandate. 9/11 Contradictions is a work that needed to be written. With characteristic clarity and focus, David Ray Griffin masterfully lays out the most critical of these questions. Now the challenge is to finally get real answers." -- Lorie Van Auken, widow of Kenneth Van Auken, killed at WTC 1 on 9/11/01, and member of the Family Steering Committee for the 9/11 Commission
"According to St. Timothy, 'God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.' In 9/11 Contradictions, David Ray Griffin, demonstrating once again what a fearless spirit and powerful mind can do, shows the official account of 9/11 to be so riddled with contradictions as to be essentially worthless." -- Catherine Austin Fitts, assistant secretary of housing in the George H. W. Bush administration
"Because the 9/11 attacks became the excuse for myriad disastrous changes in U.S. foreign and domestic policy, unraveling the true history of those events is the paramount exigency of our times. By virtue of pointing out an astonishing number of irreconcilable contradictions in the official story of 9/11, David Ray Griffin's 9/11 Contradictions is a must read, not only for the Congress and the press, but also for any American concerned about the truth, because those contradictions suggest that we have not yet been told the truth about 9/11." -- David L. Griscom, research physicist, Fellow of the American Physical Society, retired from the Naval Research Laboratory
"David Ray Griffin is America's bulldog on 9/11. His demand that the amazing contradictions in the story be explained resonates with millions of people." -- Paul Craig Roberts, former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal and assistant secretary of the US Treasury during the Reagan administration
"No matter how you feel about who is responsible for the 9/11 attack, at least we need a through independent, unbiased investigation. In this book, Griffin provides 25 useful questions----contradictions worthy of honest answers." -- Jim Hightower, author of Swim against the Current and editor of The Hightower Lowdown
"The Congress and the press may not pay attention, but this scholarly yet accessible analysis is must reading for Americans concerned about good government and effective democracy. Every reader will reach the only logical conclusion: 9/11 truth is not yet known." -- Joel S. Hirschhorn, former official at the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment and author of Delusional Democracy: Fixing the Republic Without Overthrowing the Government
"This book describes in very straightforward and non-technical terms some major inconsistencies in the government's official story about the events on September 11, 2001. It points out many attempts in the 9/11 Commission's report to cover up evidence . . . . As an engineer, I am especially troubled by the cover-up of evidence relevant to the collapse of the three major World Trade Center buildings. I hope that Congress and the public will heed this call for a full and impartial investigation to determine what really did happen on that fateful day." -- Jack Keller, Emeritus Professor of Engineering at Utah State University and member of the National Academy of Engineering
Looks like a great read. Another one on my wish list.
This would be a perfect gift for Klimmer! ;-))
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 18, 2009 - 02:15pm PT
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Military analyst (1878 -1966) FC Fuller
"The traditional means of warfare, may in time, be replaced by pure psychological warfare wherein weapons are not even used or battefields sought"
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 18, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
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Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Be afraid! Be veddy veddy afraid!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 18, 2009 - 04:56pm PT
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After plane flies into WTC tower and then the building so called weakens due to fires it pancakes and collapses? Very strange looking collapse.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Dec 18, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
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Nice pic Werner, shows WT7 really took a pounding.
BTW, how should a skyscraper collapse?
Should it fall over on it's side?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 18, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
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WB,
Classic image.
What? The WTC Towers just pancaked? Rrrreeeeeeeeeeeeaaally.
Then how come we see so much classic Projectile Motion with positive and upward parabolic pathways of massive projectiles? Steel beams being launched upward and outward? That takes an enormous amount of explosive energy to launch steel beams like a model rocket that have multiple tonnes of mass.
Just how does a pancake gravity only collapse do that?
The laws of Physics were suspended that day. Incredible.
(PPPPppppppppssssssss, come closer. Hint: Explosives. 9-11 was an inside job. MIHOP.)
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Dec 18, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
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Yes, Klimmer, the first ever controlled demolition from the impact point down, on an unprepared building, twice in the same day.
And Klimmer, if it takes an enormous amount of energy to launch those beams, then it took an enormous amount of silent explosives to do the job right?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 18, 2009 - 05:48pm PT
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Monolith,
Silent explosives? You're kidding me right?
There are countless I witness testimony of explosives going off in the WTC Towers on 9-11-01. Nearly all the fireman of that day testify to this. Now you are just making stuff up.
Don't make me have to post all the incredible video and testimony of this fact. There is a plethora of it.
Get real.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Dec 18, 2009 - 05:51pm PT
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Oh, Klimmer,
The second collapse was one of the most recorded events in history.
Where's the audio of those explosives?
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Dec 18, 2009 - 05:56pm PT
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Yep Roks, all recording the impact of a building collapsing into the ground.
Or are all those scientists in on the conspiracy as well?
Have a good weekend all! I hope to be buried in powder.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 18, 2009 - 06:20pm PT
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Rokjox,
Yes, I recall the seismic data. The spikes also occur prior to the jets impacting the buildings which confirms William Rodriguez's experience in the basement of TWC Trade Tower. The first large explosions happened before the jets slammed into the buildings. MIHOP.
Rokjox, and Werner,
I sure miss JB helping us out here. I sure miss John posting. I am glad I got the opportunity here at ST to to talk with John and talk truth. Miss him. I don't know, I just got that feeling all of a sudden.
Edit:
Link to JB's last great post on ST . . .
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=895048&msg=895646#msg895646
I would like to look up what JB said regarding 9-11 truth over the years here on ST. He had a lot of great image posts that got just to the point and truth of the matter.
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