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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:17am PT
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I'm not sure but Doug Reed was a giant. I remember reading about him and his climbing at New River Gorge in the 80's and was blown away that someone that big could climb that hard. I wish I could remember the stats. http://vimeo.com/16901409
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:48am PT
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Thanks a truckload, Johno.
As always too John. On that climb, Left side, Hourglass, I was 185-190 lbs, not too bad. I tried to be that weight back then. It's hugely different now of course. So to speak. It was only a couple weeks after my West Face of EC (4th) and the Salathe solo July 2-7 a month earlier and so I was at fighting weight and by Fall and end of the season, was recovered from those efforts for that Hourglass lead.
As others have noted above, you can be TOO light too. You are who you are, and if you are at the moment too skinny, you also have no reserves and are, what?, depleted... back then maybe more important than today. Bridwell always told me to shoot for 190-192, and so I did. Off the Salathe I was at 178, maybe even less as that was measured five days later at my parents' house after the Salathe. And, as it turned out, I was actually really weak, though I didn't think so. But I did fail on a climb or two before I went home. It took a month to recover but when I did, I was optimum. I recall it well. As the years accumulated thereafter, I should have kept my hand in and gone further, looking back today. But I was effing starving and could see no end to the endless loop of harder and harder stuff, equipment hadn't changed, shoes hadn't changed, it was actually dismal for a bit there as it appeared there was nothing changing and the future was simply more and more insane run outs. Who knew?? Thank god it changed so much.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jun 26, 2013 - 01:19am PT
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As always too John. On that climb, Left side, Hourglass, I was 185-190 lbs
I climbed at about 180-185, but I doubt I ever did moves above V10 50+ years ago.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Jun 26, 2013 - 01:24am PT
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Well, JohnoG.... that climb is certainly not anything like V10. Its problem is more like piles of V3-V6 for so long and so far above horrid protection.
John.... you are our hero. Everyone says so and for decades and no one has forgotten. A knight in shining armor, though of course you wouldn't have it.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Jun 26, 2013 - 02:13am PT
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I climbed at about 180-185, but I doubt I ever did moves above V10 50+ years ago.
Hey John, never mind V10. 50 years ago 5.10 was pretty respectable :-)
Curt
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lucander
Trad climber
Shawangunks, New York
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
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I'm 160 (5'5") and one of my partners is a former offensive linemen, he clocks in at 200 (5'8") - it amuses us to imagine that we're the heaviest duo whose climbed a few routes at the Gunks.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
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one of my partners is a former offensive linemen, he clocks in at 200 (5'8") Offensive lineman for what, PeeWee?
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lucander
Trad climber
Shawangunks, New York
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
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Haha! He got run over by Ted Washington back in the day =) Do a google image search on that guy, yikes!
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
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6'3 at around 205...some angles just beg for injuries, and the shoulders take a pounding
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
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I've spent a fair amount of time at the Rock & Ice office, scarfing internet and coming down to use a phone.
They have an endless stream of famous or soon to be famous climbers passing by who stop to say hello. Here is the body type:
Men: 140 to 150 pounds or smaller. No amazing Ape index, but everyone of them has forearms like popeye that are filled with huge veins. The rest looked pretty normal, but none of them carried much fat.
Women: Tiny with a butt the size of an 9 year old boy. They also don't look height dependent, but also have forearm veins that look like they will explode. Also low fat.
The 5.14 people are all very lean, but not anorexic, and have incredibly veined forearms. If they wore a long sleeved shirt, they would look normal. No insane biceps.
If you have seen pics of climbers back in the day, many of whom were absolutely ripped with muscle, they were physically more than adequate to climb 5.14, other than the really muscled big guys. You don't need huge muscles.
My guess is that the many of the best climbers of the seventies could have done 5.14 if they had learned all of this new technique.
Aside: Nadia Comanici, the famous gymnast from Romania, lives in my town. I've seen her around town, and she is also tiny, with a tiny butt and pretty much no big rack. That said, Beth Rodden freed many of the free El Cap routes and she is stacked.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 26, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
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That said, Beth Rodden freed many of the free El Cap routes and she is stacked. Hunh? Beth Rodden is "stacked"?
She's actually the paradigm of the very petit, very good female climber.
Height: 5'1''
Weight: 105
Maybe "stacked" means something different to you than it does to most people.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Jun 26, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
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Stevie Haston's biceps probably weigh about 200 lbs each
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jun 26, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
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Men: 140 to 150 pounds or smaller. No amazing Ape index, but everyone of them has forearms like popeye that are filled with huge veins. The rest looked pretty normal, but none of them carried much fat. Women: Tiny with a butt the size of an 9 year old boy. They also don't look height dependent, but also have forearm veins that look like they will explode. Also low fat.
This is what I would guess after observing climbers for 60 years. Back in the 1950s it was possible for men to develop a powerful physique and do well on the rock, climbing at the top levels (a lot lower than now). This is what I tried to do, going from a scrawny 145 lbs at 6'1" when I entered Ga Tech, to 180 in a few years, using gymnastics primarily. I actually viewed climbing as a manly sport in which I could change my self-image.
It's a completely different world now. Pat Ament and I have joked about rock climbing eventually becoming the province of petite female gymnasts. I suppose that might possibly happen, but probably not. I remain curious if a female can do front levers, crosses, and planches. Rich Goldstone has promised to supply the evidence they can.
If so, all is lost, men. BURT BRONSON, where are you?
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Jun 26, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
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not at I could ever climb 5.14 (haha, or .12) but at my strongest and thinnest I think I was like 160. I'm not little. its kinda funny since almost all of my climbing partners have been smaller than I, especially now. being 5'9", I do have a decent ape index at 5 inches.
I wonder about the success of larger women climbing and have noticed the standard petite or thin body type. does climbing attract the type or generate the type? that goes for men and women.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jun 26, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
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Well I'm bouncing around 225 at 5'11' and the thought of getting off the couch scares me. At 195 I could do one arm pull ups, the best I could drag my sorry ass up was about a medium .11. I've worked .12's and finally got a few, but honestly when heading up to that spectrum, mass is an adversary. When I get onto the "Harder" routes .12 and up I just don't see anyway my body type is going to do that move.
But I'm solid to have your back in a barroom brawl...Through climbing and work my tendons in both hands have had multiple surgeries ( all related to over use), trigger finger in my 30's and carpel tunnel plus a few other surgeries that I can't even recall.
Gravity is a gruel mistress....Imagine what Korr and Whitaker could have climbed if they weighed what Warren did.
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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Jun 26, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
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My 6'4" 285 lb ascent of Suicide's Duck Soup 5.10 in E.B.s doesn't come close.....but it felt that way at the time!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2014 - 09:08am PT
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Dr. F?
Nice video Biotch
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2015 - 08:31am PT
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Seems like 5.14 is the new 5.10. Someone over 220lbs has to have done one.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Feb 27, 2017 - 12:50pm PT
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John Dunne - Big Issue
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Spent several months working on this film for John Dunne which I suspect was intended to prolong his period as a professional climber. I quite enjoyed making it but in the end, never got paid more than my expenses.
Sid Perou
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