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RtM
Boulder climber
DHS
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Nov 24, 2009 - 01:16pm PT
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I'm not saying that anyone should or shouldn't do anything here.
But I go to Joshua Tree for peace and quiet, and I think it sucks to have to hear that sh#t, and its been happening alot lately.
and yea, its way louder than any noise the "tourons" are making, you can hear it even on Queen Mtn. This aint Jacks shithole, its a National Park.
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apogee
climber
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Nov 24, 2009 - 01:25pm PT
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"But I go to Joshua Tree for peace and quiet, and I think it sucks to have to hear that sh#t, and its been happening alot lately."
It does suck. And it sounds like the Cohn's are being jackasses. This is not a new problem by any means- it has deep roots. Rather than doing a bunch of useless spraying on a Climber's Forum, direct your energies towards something that has a shred of hope (and in this case, I do mean 'shred') and contact the NPS. The property is always going to belong to the Cohn's, but if bitching about the gunplay is ever going to have an effect, it needs to be directed to the right place.
Randy, any other suggestions?
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LowNRight
Trad climber
CA
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Nov 24, 2009 - 01:25pm PT
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This sounds like the bellyaching of the entitled bunch spewing “It’s my right to take away your rights, even if it’s on your land". Would it bother you if the public at large decided that the bolts were and eyesore and that all the yelling associated with climbing that is occurring on the public land was a nuisance? Would you feel like your rights were being encroached on? Don’t be so quick to jump on the “this is for the greater good wagon”. It might just run you over.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 24, 2009 - 01:29pm PT
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Count your blessings.
Be glad they're not dirt-bike enthusiasts. Those idiots are loud AND destructive.
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Ricardo Cabeza
Trad climber
Warner, NH
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Nov 24, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
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You know, typically I don't bother saying anything in these types of threads, it's more fun to read and laugh.
But, I am the type that usually favors the left and would typically agree with those who are bitching on other topics. However, stop bitching!!
It's their land, they can do as they please!! How does this not make sense? You can complain all you want, but rules are rules and the law is the law!
If it bothers you so much, find climbing upwind of the property, wear an Ipod, whatever.
I'm amazed at the indignance of some people who want everything their way.
Personally, I don't like listening to gunfire while I climb (it's happened to me more than a few times), but I'm intelligent enough to understand that property rights are there for a reason, and changing them polarizes all types against the government that you support in so many other ways.
EDIT; T1. OP hasn't chimed in since the ...OP.
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Nov 24, 2009 - 01:42pm PT
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It'd be pretty funny if it turned out rlf was just playing a CD of gunfire to make policing of the property easier.
Maybe Russ could loan him the audio portion of the nuclear bomb.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Nov 24, 2009 - 01:49pm PT
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Hey Robert, how's life?
Something interesting I thought I'd ask, If a climber were to go climb on the Cohn property and get injured, would the Cohn's not be held accountable? Is an incident like this sufficiant enough to warrant a more strict hand when keeping the property clear of miscreants (like certain guidebook authors ;D)?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 24, 2009 - 01:57pm PT
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From what I've seen the Cohens are decent stewards of the property and have dumped a lot of money into cleaning up after the previous hippie generation trashed the place.
They own about 120 acres in a place the size of Delaware. If you don't like the noise either go somewhere else or FO&D.
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jstan
climber
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Nov 24, 2009 - 02:01pm PT
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I have heard stories that large cats were kept for a time on the Cohn property. If they were, I would have thought the NPS would have been concerned that control might be lost and Park users endangered.
Edit:
Siegfried and Roy eh?
So there is something to the stories. That it has been kept so hush hush suggests it would be interesting to hear the whole deal.
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apogee
climber
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Nov 24, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
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Jeez, TGT, while I generally agree with you, your usual harsh rhetoric ('FO&D') just reinforces your impression of a grouchy old fart.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Nov 24, 2009 - 02:04pm PT
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Sheesh. You invite Siegfried & Roy over ONE TIME and it gets blown way out of proportion.
C'mon now, Apogee.
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apogee
climber
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Nov 24, 2009 - 02:09pm PT
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Hey! I resemble that remark!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Nov 24, 2009 - 02:28pm PT
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Don't worry 'bout it. I'm fast tracked to Grouchy Old Fart. Almost twenty five and I'm at the "harumphing on the internet all day" phase. That makes me 50 in GOF years!
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MisterE
Social climber
SoperCalifragalistic!
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Nov 24, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 24, 2009 - 02:59pm PT
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Cali's are liberal whiners
Not this second generation one.
I've been proclaimed a "grouchy old fart"
I'll prefer that moniker any day over "liberal whiner"
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Nov 24, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
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Rox - fyi City of Rocks is a National Preserve.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Nov 24, 2009 - 03:38pm PT
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Robert,
Dave Hauser and I put up 7th Heaven and Sun Days on that big face. They should have had aluminum DPH hangers on the bolts. These are the routes that Kamps was climbing while being shot at. Have all the bolts been pulled by now?
Jan McCollum
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Ricardo Cabeza
Trad climber
Warner, NH
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Nov 24, 2009 - 04:00pm PT
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RJ,
I know you've heard it too many times, but why the Cali hating? Did you live there in the past and got burned out? Cool. More power to you. But something about your online personality puts a hair across my ass.
How conservative are you really? Libretarian? Right winger? Anarchist?
I'm not condescending upon you, it just seems that some of your responses are kinda inflamatory. I understand that that's what you're going for, but don't you think that it would represent your interests best if you toned it down a bit?
Present your opinion (which by the way, I actually agree with some of the time) in a respectful manner. Your opinions are well thought out, I simply think that when you bring them to the table, you incite so much wrath that most either ignore you or discount your thoughts as those of a raving, bitter, ex-californian.
Please, RJ, bring constructive thought to the table and you WILL find that people actually agree with you. It's just the harsh attacks based on general premises that suck.
CA is a state built upon many thoughts, beliefs, and premises. Please don't bunch California into one group, as it seems you sometimes do.
Respectfully Yours,
Brandon-
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jstan
climber
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Nov 24, 2009 - 04:25pm PT
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"I own a house in Monument Manor, moonlightmesaretreats.com....(shameless plug) Monument Manor is a finger of old property that is surrounded by National Park."
Not sure this is entirely correct. Section 5 & 6 are/were BLM land. Section 5 was made available to the village of JT though I am not clear as to how title is held. I don't believe Coyote Hole is run by the NPS. It needs to be, however. Across the road to the West, section 12 is privately held. Quail Wash was privately held and was for sale, though I don't know what happened.
Also while the NPS may have taken title to lands they do not therefore simply become a part of the Park. A park's boundaries are a matter requiring Federal action above and beyond possession of title.
The park boundary to the South of section 12 is located about a mile south of the obvious ridgeline. In what used to be called "Whispering Pines" at the boundary there are perhaps two pieces of property owned fee simple. Some of the structures there ( most have been torn down) are leaseholds.
I know the crowd on ST is composed primarily of rockgrippers whose breath comes hard and whose fingers flex reflexively, 24/7, as they search for the rock. The Park is much more than that. In Whispering Pines I came on a 54 Chevy flatbed missing its engine with a homebuilt wooden cabover nearby on blocks. Now fully occupied by packrats the domicle has breathtaking views all the way to the mountains beyond the Marine Base. The dirtbags among us will appreciate what had been written on the little structure by its former occupant.
"Good Enough"
And once while on the way to Samuelson's I found my self standing on a collection of oddly polished stones. When I looked more closely they very clearly covered a rectangle about 2' x 6'. When I showed the site to a geologist friend he said, "These stones came from the Colorado River."
There are a lot of rocks in JTNP. But that is just the beginning of what is there.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 24, 2009 - 04:32pm PT
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so anyway, i had lots of jalapenos with dinner last night and my ass has been shootin' fire all day. whew.
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