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WBraun
climber
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Nov 13, 2009 - 12:58pm PT
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Yeah rgold
That was an eloquent masterpiece .....
In early 70's I went with Bachar and Kauk to the Gill problems in Colorado.
All I could do is watch, as John and Ron tried these impossible looking things.
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:07pm PT
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Eloquent to say the least.Kudos RG.
PS: I didn't mean my observation to in any way be a put down, if it was taken that way my apologies to you Stinkeye.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Nov 13, 2009 - 05:02pm PT
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When I was just getting underway out at Tahquitz about 200 years ago we were always stoked to do a Robbins route, or a Kamps route, or a route first done by Chouinard, Frost, Higgins, Wilts, and so forth.
None of us were ass kissers, and we weren't stoked for their sakes, but because WE felt special to be doing classic routes. Same thing when we started doing the Gill problems.
In other words, getting excited by those who came before never felt to dim our luster, but rather it made us shine even brighter, at least in our own minds. With a little perspective one can have the feeling of being part of something greater than themselves, and that's a big feeling to be sure.
JL
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Barry Bates
Boulder climber
Smith River CA
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Nov 13, 2009 - 06:03pm PT
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John
You almost took the words out of my mouth, after reading Rich's great piece.
I happened to think of the first time I did the Steck overhang on Columbia in Camp 4. I was in my early teens and I remember being overjoyed at finally getting up it; there was definitely an added mystique to the route because his name was on it.
Going bouldering at Horse Tooth or the Jenny Lake Boulders is like going to an art museum with a one man show of Jackson Pollacks; maybe you've seen them in history books, but the real thing is so much better than you imagined that you're thunder struck. They represent such a turning point in climbing that once word got out nothing was ever the same. I think history is an individual thing; some think it is "Bunk" and others are completely enthralled by it. I've always been one of the enthralled. But my guess would be that the "bunkers" enjoy the Gill areas just as much as I do.
Barry
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 07:27pm PT
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One good point Rich Goldstone makes in the film is that
lots of us have done Gill problems, in part because
many of his routes are/were nowhere near the upper limits of
his abilities. I've watched generation after generation
come along and try to prove themselves a little, or at least
try to measure themselves alongside Gill's ability,
through his routes, when in fact when he did some of these routes
he was suffering from climber's elbow or some other ailment,
a bad finger, a strained back.... Some of the
routes at Lost Canyon, for example, were just casual exercises
for him, chosen so as to be not hard enough to re-aggravate
some injury. They were relatively moderate for him. People would
repeat some of those routes and feel they had in some sense
equalled him. I took Patrick Edlinger to Ft. Collins right after
he had won at Snowbird, and I mean he was a fierce young new star,
but he wasn't as good as Gill, with Gill injured and in only
modest form. I once climbed a couple routes John took me to and
he had hoped to work on and do, and he was impressed, but I had no
illusions whatsoever about having equalled him much less surpassed in
any way. But he has always been so gracious and humble, he can
make you feel as though you really are in a league of your own. John
in fact is the only boulderer I have ever met who truly was in a
league all his own.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Nov 14, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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Nice post Patrick.
Reminder Bump, since the 24th is coming up.
What's the weather like up there at the moment?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 14, 2009 - 05:39pm PT
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A thought about the place of history in the modern climbing context.
As we know, the climbing gym occupies a central position in determining new climbing generations. Nowadays, most young people are first exposed to climbing at a birthday party in a climbing gym, and many continue in the gym, perhaps getting involved in competitions if they have talent, for several years. So it is that attitudes towards the climbing for many people are likely to have been shaped by their formative experiences in the gym, even if they move on to one or several of the outdoor climbing genres.
Now this is not one of those old-fogy rants about climbing gyms. (I am an old fogy, but I have nothing against climbing gyms and try to get one once or twice a week as much as the rest of my life allows.) But here's the thing: there is no past in the climbing gym, there is only the present. Routes are taken down and changed (one hopes) on a regular basis. Even if Sharma came and sent a new blue route, it won't be around in a month or two, certainly not in a year or more.
And so there is no history and no concept of history in the gym. Climbers in the gym may be more socially connected than ever before, but the manifold ways in which---to allude to Newton---they stand on the shoulders of giants are completely outside their field of view, because the entire concept of historical debt is foreign to the indoor endeavor.
So perhaps it should not be surprising to find a bunch of young and talented boulderers out at Horsethief without a clue about how the problems got there and what they represent.
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Nov 14, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
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Hey Bruce
The weather is settling in here on the high plains of NoCo-the weather guessers say 6 to 12 inches in the next 24 hours. How's your weather?
RGold, well put.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2009 - 06:46pm PT
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I always appreciate your thoughts, Rich.
I have decided if the weather is bad in Boulder I will take
the train from Grand Junction to Denver and have someone
pick me up. That way I don't have to worry about getting there
over the two major passes in winter. No snow in Boulder should
keep anyone away. I sense lots of great people will be there,
Rearick, Holloway, Curt Shannon, possibly even Gill himself, let's
hope. It will be easy going and fun. Please let your friends know.
And start thinking about somewhere fun to go after the show.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 14, 2009 - 07:19pm PT
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Pat,
If that's what you decide to do--just let me know. My flight from Phoenix lands at around 11:30am and I was thinking about perhaps getting in a few problems on Flagstaff Mtn. with BobD in the afternoon (weather permitting) but I can definitely pick you up.
Curt
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Nov 14, 2009 - 07:51pm PT
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Robb, thanks for the update. It was gorgeous here in ABQ until the last couple days. Buggs and I were climbing in t-shirts and sweating a few days ago!
Dreary and sprinkling at the moment. I have an old military buddy who just arrived for a few days of climbing. Luckily it's supposed to get nice again on Monday!
Still wish I was gonna be there for the premiere!!
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
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When I was a teenager, I recall reading the book "Master of Rock, A lighthearted Walk Through the Life and Rock Climbing of John Gill". I was inspired and set out to find his problems. At that time I was residing in the Mid West. As I matured as a climber, boulderer I often reflected on the rock climbing accomplishments of his youth and the physical and mental prowess within that prime. I then arrived at his boulder problems in Colorado and forever remain inspired.
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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Following in his footsteps.
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:36pm PT
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Getting honed in the quest
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:39pm PT
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Then there's Colorado, north
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
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And the Mental Block
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:44pm PT
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Then there's Colorado south
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:45pm PT
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And the Infamous Fatted Calf
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:54pm PT
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Thanks for the inspiration.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 15, 2009 - 12:40am PT
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Nice shots Sunnyside!
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