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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Hitler called himself a good Christian too.
I knew it! Christians are NAZI's!!!
/sarcasm
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scarcollector
climber
CO
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The Repubs and Dems are like the yin and yang - they are defined by each other. Now the tactic to promote oneself is to say: "that's what I'm NOT." And in defining by exclusion, it's best to show that what's excluded is very bad. I suppose it's like chipping instead of getting stronger.
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apogee
climber
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"The first step in rationally examining politics, politicians and their actions is to ignore the rhetoric."
Truer words have never been spoken. I wish that statement would appear at the top of every new page of this (or any other political) thread.
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scarcollector
climber
CO
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"The first step in rationally examining politics, politicians and their actions is to ignore the rhetoric."
I've heard the same advice given to women about men in a romantic/relationship context.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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The first step in rationally examining politics, politicians and their actions is to ignore the rhetoric. And the Nazis were if nothing else masters of political rhetoric and agitprop.
That's damn good point, Anders. Examine their ACTIONS.
But weren't the Nazi's damn good at rhetoric as a means of control. To ignore the rhetoric would be to ignore some of the most brutality in the 20th century. The rhetoric of Marx, Lenin, and Stalin was pretty damaging too!
"Let's overthrough the gov't, we're the one's truly looking after the little people".
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Apogee, I'm not saying that the psychological pattern I am describing is biological. Far from it, though there might be some genetic predisposition to thinking in absolutes, to anxiety in general, and to other factors that comprise the underlying complex. The real benchmark of this type is the "otherating," or the obsession with the behavior and imagined sins of others, while there is seemingly no self-observation and self invertorying going on, hence no accountability.
So far as being a thought czar, as I mentioned yesterday, realizing how this all works was a wake up call for me to keep a close lookout to my own tendencies that run by unconscious drivers of fear, guilt, control, terror of change and so forth. Since trying to influence the far side is usless, it's best to kep the focus where I do have some control - over my own life.
On topic, I think almost all of the chotic and irrational fear mongering from the far right is due to one basic dynamic that Norton posted early on in this thread - viz:
In a March, 2009 51-page paper [PDF] "New Progressive America: Twenty Years of Demographic, Geographic, and Attitudinal Changes Across the Country Herald a New Progressive Majority," Ruy Teixeira makes a strong case that "progressive arguments are in the ascendancy," that demographic and geographic "trends should take America down a very different road than has been traveled in the last eight years. A new progressive America is on the rise."
The parade is passing the right. Unable to change, in fact, having a terror of fundamental change, they can do nothig but rain on said parade, demanding that the band keep playing the same old JPS song, the song they know, marching in lockstep, predictable, going in one direction, never realizing that the parade did a left flank several blocks back and they're can no longer control the direction nor yet the song.
JL
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apogee
climber
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blue, you are missing the point- rhetoric works when you choose to listen to it. The fact that the German populace followed Nazi rhetoric so completely is a frightening observation of human behavior and the choices they make.
Ignore the rhetoric- and remember, it is all around you.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sh#t, at this pace we'll be at 9000 before the end of the day.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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I think thats a misconception apogee.
The Nazis rose to power because of a mindset that was prevalent in Germany at that time.
Initially, Hitler was as much of a product of that mindset as a director of it. The Wiemar republic (1919-33) was a short break in what had been a century of militaristic and authoritarian rule in Germany.
The non-socialist elements of German politics were clamoring for authoritarian leadership by the end of the Weimar Republic.
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apogee
climber
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Jeremy, you certainly seem to have a much clearer historical understanding of Nazi Germany, which I would defer to. While the conditions may have been underway for such a movement prior to Hitler, it has also been my understanding that there were concurrent social and economic issues that were strong contributors to the 'buy-in' that occurred by the populace in response to the rhetoric and propaganda. Your view of this?
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R.B.
Trad climber
AZ-WA
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Don't you all think that it's time for this thread to die ... I mean, regardless of our individual politics ... whether you wear red, white or blue britches, this is after all a climbing website ... and there ain't a whole lotta climbing going on here at 8900 posts.
Remember ... gravity doesn't care about your party affilation, just your mass!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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The parade is passing the right. Unable to change, in fact, having a terror of fundamental change, they can do nothig but rain on said parade, demanding that the band keep playing the same old JPS song, the song they know, marching in lockstep, predictable, going in one direction, never realizing that the parade did a left flank several blocks back and they're can no longer control the direction nor yet the song.
JL
It's funny how you always have criticism of the 'right' and their lack of 'change'. Like change is good, and we should always seek to change and 'progress' ourselves. Is the whole 'progressive' movement just silly, yet dangerous, "rhetoric" guised in helping people and 'progressing'?
Or am I just being an 'alcoholic'-like fear monger?
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Largo
Nature Neuroscience has reported on an experiment that is being touted as proving that "liberals" are smarter than
"conservatives." but analysis of the findings shows that it really means that Liberals fall prey to propaganda (such as Nazism)
more easily than Conservatives whose brains do work differently!
Liberals are more open to new experiences and ideas such as fascism, communism, or even Nazism. It showed they are willing to consider ideas that are obviously harmful when Conservatives will just reject them.
Pretty sweet huh?
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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The data suggested greater neurocognitive sensitivity to cues for altering a habitual response pattern.
i.e. Sure lets socialize 1/6 of the American economy for health care. Sounds new and fun to the Liberal mind so they just go for it. Helplessly believing the propaganda.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apogee, you are exhibiting anger towards opposing speech....
Try to be more productive in your dissent instead of throwing tired, random insults and images.
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