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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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As an outsider, it has always seemed to me that the US right-wing is very frightened. More than anything, frightened of change - despite knowing full well that change is a main dynamic driving the US. They long for a better, simpler world - one that never was, however fervently they believe otherwise. (Possibly the "city on the hill" of the 17th century.) To them, Obama symbolizes inevitable change - whether demographic, racial, economic, social, or otherwise. And they know that Republican policies are largely bankrupt. Given the symbolism, it's beyond rational. And frightened people are easily manipulated.
The extent to which the Republican party has fed into this over the last 40+ years, with the "war on crime", the "war on drugs" and the "war on terrorism", its ceaseless advocacy of what it claims to be American "values", and indeed its claiming to be the true, genuine representative of the real America, is appalling. Ultimately, the social, economic, foreign and military policies it adopts generally have the opposite effect from the values it supposedly espouses, and it is the elites that benefit. Destroying the country and its values to save it.
As always, follow the money. I'm not one for the fallacy that economics has values, but it does say a lot about what's really happening.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Mmmmmm, cream cheese.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Largo, I could say the same about lefties...
Know how many times I had to sit through rants and hold my tongue????
I'm goin' fishin'....
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
A survey where 68% preferred this Fuca over others
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While reading the paper this morning I got a depressing view of [url="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/06/ING219GKJL.DTL&type=printable"]
Palin and America's paranoid-style politics.[/url]
I was still somewhat hopeful because of the implication that the Republican party is headed toward insignificance.
Bu then I became even more melancholy when I read the comics and realized I am part of [url="http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/"]a tiny group, not so influential[/url].
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Wanda - I saw that to. Good cartoon.
And Largo; your comments about that bike riding partner gave a strong echo of my perception of the Lefts outlook on issues.
Guess we got to laugh about it. Nothing else to do.
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
A survey where 68% preferred this Fuca over others
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The wackos used to be on the "fringe" . . .
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jstan
climber
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"a liberal thinks with his heart, a conservative thinks with his brain."
OK let's go with that premise.
And let's assume Dick and George are not liberals. I gave you a premise now you give me one.
A person, especially one who has worked in the oil industry and who uses his brain, knows immediately that absent an overwhelming force projection you can't invade an oil producing country and expect to keep on producing oil at a rate sufficient to fund the occupation and to control that oil in a cost effective manner, ie. make a profit.
Therefore we know, since Dick and George are not liberals, that we did not invade Iraq with the expectation of getting their oil. To figure out why, a conservative would of course "follow the money."
Well a trillion dollars and more has gone into outfits like Dick's old crew, Halliburton.
Does Mobil/Exxon realize they were cheated? If Dick had really meant to get them the oil they asked for, after 9/11 George would have been on the tube explaining why we had to have a peacetime draft and we would have put a million boots on the ground in Iraq. Largely focussed on defending the oil pipelines.
So under the presumption that conservatives use their brains, we were in Iraq just for the "quick money" that would go into Halliburton et.al.. There was no long term planning.
The brains were applied only as far as the end of the current quarter and all of the costs were "externalized" and paid by taxpayers.
You know, I can believe that also.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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JSTAN: Tunnel Trail is outrageous but it was too hot yestarday for Tunnel - which has no tree cover at all. So we rode Romero Canyon instead.
"As you say that is the reason right wing talking points move so easily between individuals. Once their psychology has been diagnosed and the formula of the stuff has been optimized, it can be slopped onto people like cream cheese."
Seems like the truth. What I didn't fully understand is the degree that psychological factors drove the process. It runs virtually the opposite than what Blue is claiming - that no independent thinking whatsoever goes into any of the issues. Every issue is decided according to the psychological template, and therefor is totally predictable without any reference to the issues at all. Particulary amazaing is the aversion to being accountable to past transgressions (guilt aversion) and an underlying terror or change outside their imagined loci of control.
Amazing to understand just how mechanical this process is, while giving the impresion that serious cognition is in play. It simply is not.
JL
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apogee
climber
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"a liberal thinks with his heart, a conservative thinks with his brain."
What a ridiculous sh*tload of Krap®.
If one accepts that retarded premise, then it only makes Repugs look all the more asinine as their so-called 'brain-oriented' leadership has only led to hypocrisy, death, and economic collapse.
bluering, you aren't making a very convincing case for the Repugs. Maybe you'll have better luck fishing.
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jstan
climber
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"Particulary amazing is the aversion to being accountable to past transgressions (guilt aversion) and an underlying terror or change outside their imagined loci of control. "
This is the other side of the coin as regards absence of long term planning. If you have no personal responsibility for planning ahead more than 90 days then you also have no responsibility to admit past failures occurring more than 90 days previous.
If you run the cheese through the Wehring blender so there are no "lumps" at all, it is all good no matter even the reality facing one "right now".
The healthcare debate is "right now" and look at what is being said. This particular cream cheese has been in the blender for 30 years.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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I thought that it was: "A liberal thinks with his brain and a conservative thinks with his wallet (or bible)."
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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I believe that at both end of the spectrum, unconscious emotional drivers pretty much run the show. I find especially interesting the idea that the far right acts by way of thought processes.
My sense of this is that - at the extreme left or righ - there is such a lack of cognititive process going on that it's ludicrous to take anything they do or say personally becuase there really is no "person" or independent self there at all.
Per the far right, there seems to be deep aversion to process, transformation and change. Such requires rigorous honesty, a continual investigation to where we are going astary, immediate amends and course correction as things change some more, and no end of the process in sight. In other words, we need a program for living lest sloth and rigidity take over.
Life is a moving target we cannot control. The best we can do is adapt as we go along, so far as we can. Witout rigorous honesty, feedback from others, and continuous course corection, I'm (we're) hosed.
JL
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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..and that concludes Conservative v Liberal "They're nuts and don't know it" debate.
In their honor here is the best example of those ideals:
Van Jones
unemployed czar.
However, the problem remains. What problem?
The problem is how much longer must we continue to believe Obama has opinions any different than those with whom he has associated with for years?
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shut up and pull
climber
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From the best center-right blog -- Powerline:
A reader writes, appropriately enough, from Belgrade, Serbia, to comment on "Van Jones goes down swinging." He writes:
"I had to chuckle when I read Van Jones's assertion that he "received encouragement from across the political spectrum to 'stay and fight.'"Yeah, right, from the Bolsheviks, the Mensheviks and even the Trotskyites!
I have to admit that I struggled with that portion of Jones's resignation letter. Given his description of Republicans as "a**s," I doubt that Jones's support extended to the Republican side of the aisle. Perhaps there were a few like me who wished he would "stay and fight" because his presence in the administration is a self-inflicted wound to President Obama. But our reader's explication makes perfect sense.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Obama the black communist fires Van Jones, another black communist. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when that went down. Here is what I imagined happened:
Obama: "Van, listen man, you and I are both hard-core committed communists. Long live Marx and Lenin! But you know, and I know, that we can't let the public really know that we are committed communists. Even though I am firing your ass, you are still my comrade!"
Jones: "Oh Barry, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease man, don't fire me. I know the public will buy my explanation for signing on to that 9-11 truther ad. I did not know what I was signing! Yeah -- that will fly!! Barry -- give it a chance!! Don't toss me under the bus like you did to the Reverend, and your grandma. Don't do it!
Obama: "Van, I know this is hard, but we just can't let the public know -- especially the independents, that all that "green" agenda crap is just a cover for Marxism. If the moderates figure that out, we are toast!"
Jones: "Barry -- you are weak. If you were strong, you would stand up and tell the American people that 9-11 was an inside job, whites are racist, capitalism is the enemy, and Islamic radicals are our friends. You suck Barry."
Obama: "Sorry Van, but you got to go!"
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Rockjox wrote: He said exactly the same thing: That the US needs to address the concerns put forth by Osama Bin Laden.
Dumb shits like SUP and Bookworm think that America got the best of Bin Liden...what a joke...with minimal cost and minimal lost of life he basically bought America to it's knees.
He laughed in our face during the Bush years.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Rok -- America has saved more Muslims from death than any other country in the world. But that makes no difference at all to the Muslim world.
Here is what I suggest -- you listen to the sermons that are being played in the mosques, day in and day out, across the Muslim world. Islam, and especially radical Islam, wants NOTHING to do with the western world other than to conquer it, and subject it to Sharia law. Listen to the sermons by the imams, from Saudi Arabia, to Indonesia. The words may cast blame on us, but the goal is still the same -- subjugation of the west. The Islamic world does not want "to be left alone" -- it wants to rule you, me, and every other infidel with the rules of Sharia.
Until you realize that, you are their pawn. You are an asset to them since you spew the message they want every westerner to believe -- "Don't worry -- we are peaceful. But make sure you don't piss us off or we will slit your throat."
What is remarkable about the left is that all of its supposed cherished values -- abortion on demand, gay rights, womens' rights, free speech, free press, etc. -- the Muslim world despises as weak and evil. And yet to liberals, it seems they just have no problem with a culture that denigrates, and finds to be evil, everything liberals hold dear.
What normal Americans woke up and realized about the left is that the reason liberals have no problem with the abhorrent values of the Muslim world, is that the Muslims are at war with the capitalist Christian west -- and we all know how liberals feel about capitalism and Christianity! Liberals willingly support a culture that would relish every liberal's death in the name of Allah. Amazing, sick, and sad.
Its hilarious -- liberals see a racist, homophobic, sexist jerk behind every tree in America. Yet the Muslim world is dominated by these guys -- and libs think Muslims are A-OK.
Hey libs -- grow a sack. The Islamic world spits on you daily in their religious diatribes, and believes that your death is a gift to their God. And yet you libs -- from France to Frisco -- don't have the balls to stand up to true religious fascism (as opposed to the fake religious fascism you think exists here in the States). Grow some balls, and figure out who the real enemy is.
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shut up and pull
climber
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This would be a great comedy sketch:
A planeload of liberals is hijacked by radical Muslim extremists. I wonder what the liberals would say to these guys?
Fill in the blanks.
"Oh Mr. Terrorist -- you are right. I am lower than a pig and deserve to have my head sliced off. Go ahead.""
"Oh Mr. Terrorist -- or should I call you "My master" -- bin Laden was right -- America is to blame for all of your problems in the Muslim world, from lack of running water, stonings for adultery, hangings for homosexuals, corrupt inefficient governments -- you are RIGHT!! -- and I deserve your wrath. Slice away!!
Apogee -- wow -- that is cute!
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