Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 15, 2010 - 12:47pm PT
Am I missing something then?

Yes.
Dave

Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
Feb 15, 2010 - 12:52pm PT
Thanks for the enlightening reply.

Methane = 1.75 ppm

CFC's = < ppb.

water = clouds ...

?????
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Feb 15, 2010 - 12:57pm PT
So sad that the DR F cannot admit he was wrong about AGW, and that the idea
just somehow clicked with his 'guilt for being human complex' and so was not responsible for his gullibility.

Phil Jones has now confessed "No warming since 1995, key alarmist and “scientist” admits.

His record keeping is shoddy. (by design perhaps?)

Earth was warmer in medieval times, Jones states. But he does not know why.

The intimate relationship between solar cycles and Earth’s climate totally eludes top warmist and influential “scientist” Phil Jones. What planet is he from?



Dave

Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
Feb 15, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
Ed,

I actually am interested in what Chiloe has to say, and I did Google the concentration of GHG's in atmosphere.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 15, 2010 - 01:55pm PT
Thanks for the enlightening reply.

Dave, I wasn't trying to be a wise guy. You jumped out so quickly to slam Emanuel, but I thought you'd catch what he said if you reread him. Water vapor makes up most of the GHG mass in our atmosphere.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 15, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
"Green energy" is produced by burning the public treasury.

http://tinyurl.com/Windmill-ghosts
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Feb 15, 2010 - 03:07pm PT

If the Warmists here want to be taken seriously rather than just posters
to be snickered at they'll turn the heat off in their homes, wear
CO2 scrubbing gas masks and walk to work to show they are serial about saving the climate.

bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Feb 16, 2010 - 07:50am PT
i never get tired of these bits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-PI2vCA9ck&feature=player_embedded#
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Feb 16, 2010 - 10:29am PT
now, it's the ipcc's claims on hurricanes:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/15/hatton_on_hurricanes/
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 16, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
If the Warmists here want to be taken seriously rather than just posters
to be snickered at they'll turn the heat off in their homes, wear
CO2 scrubbing gas masks and walk to work to show they are serial about saving the climate.


And I assume that all the tea-partiers (and other republicans) that are concerned about huge deficits will donate all of their money to the Fed.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
It's almost like these people are intentionally distorting things.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7231386/African-crops-yield-another-catastrophe-for-the-IPCC.html
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Feb 16, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
We Americans have come to realize that the “science” behind global warming seems to mainly consist of fudging data and making doomsday prophecies in return for grant money, the wheels have started to come off Al Gore’s hobby horse.

Of course, Conservatives have not been shocked by this turn of events. That’s because unlike far too many Liberals, Conservatives are actually interested in science, while the Left looks at it as little more than another institution to march through and corrupt in an effort to push their political agenda forward.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
Ed, the primary source is not responding to FOIA requests, losing data, and generally pushing flawed data. You want me trust them?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 16, 2010 - 04:19pm PT
There's really two different threads entwined within this one. There's what I would call the "science thread," whose biggest contributors are people like Ed and Chiloe, who simply put forth the peer-reviewed studies. While there's the usual politics (does this make it political science?) that exists in all disciplines, the uncertainty and controversy isn't very great as to what the science tells us.

Then there's the "what we should do about it" thread. IMHO, that latter thread has a very great deal of uncertainty, and some on both sides of that debate have resorted either to distortion or worse to make their points. Science always involves intelligent skepticism, but the "what we should do about it" issue really requires a very great deal of skepticism of the claims of every side. Peoples' preconceptions play a very great role in what they prescribe -- at least in the view of those of us who appreciate Bayesian statistics, and see that as a reasonable model of epistemology.

John
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 04:36pm PT
The IPCC, Wes.

The 'hockey stick used temperature data from questionable locations and seemed to ignore 'colder' locales.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 04:48pm PT
Aparrently it wasn't just the data-sets used, either, but the model was flawed as well.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/13830/?a=f
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Feb 16, 2010 - 04:52pm PT
Calm down there Weschrist (if you can). Bad couple of months for you Warmists
I know. Steady.

Do you refer to the direct records of temperature change that can no longer be found by Doctor Phil Jones at the CRU ? And perhaps never existed
in the form he claims?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 05:32pm PT
Wes, it isn't just the data, the program twisted the data. They did leave out the older warming period too, didn't they?

And did they adjust station readings (data) from the past to account for urbanization around the stations?

The tree ring sets have been found to be questionable too.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 16, 2010 - 05:36pm PT
Summary
The development and calibration of a solar-output model for climate are supported by geophysical, archaeological, and historical evidence from the last full glacial Pleistocene (30,000 years BP) through the current Holocene interglacial to the present. The solar-output model is based on a superposition of a fundamental harmonic progression of cycles beginning at 10 and 12 years and progressing to the 13th harmonic (90,000-year cycle), which is approximately equal to the average continental glacial cycle. This model was date calibrated to the Pleistocene/Holocene boundary at 9,000 years BP and compared with geophysical records of sea level, carbon-14 production, oxygen 16/18 ratios, and other geologic evidence of climate fluctuations. The approximate 1,300-year little-ice-age cycle and intervening warmer periods agree with archaeological and historical evidence of these cold and warm periods. Throughout history, global warming has brought prosperity whereas global cooling has brought adversity.

The solar-output model allows speculation on global climatic variations in the next 10,000 years. Extrapolation of the solar-output model shows a return to little-ice-age conditions by A.D. 2400–2900 followed by a rapid return to altithermal conditions during the middle of the third millennium A.D. This altithermal period may be similar to the Holocene Maximum that began nearly 3,800 years ago. The solar output model suggests that, approximately 20,000 years after it began, the current interglacial period may come to an end and another glacial period may begin.


http://www.pnas.org/content/97/23/12433.full


The sun may have something to do with the climate?

Ya think?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 16, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
This is like listening to bowlers talking trash about El Cap.
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