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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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holy shizzle! Ginshu-knife indeed!! But what a feature to define a line. That thing is amazing... if I climbed that hard it would be difficult to resist.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Ther are a few good ones and a lot of blind negativity. Interestingly enough I am of the OP that any multi pitch climb should be ground up and single pitch as well if that is the local ethic. I have on occasion broken my own rules and rap bolted though;) I feel the key is if you have the guns and talk smack about chopping you are wasteing your life on negative energy. Why not do something positive to answer the challange. New free rout on the same wall. Ground up. A second best effort would be to re bolt one of the established scarefests and send that. If you arn't willing and able to do either then recognize the fact that you live in an armchair fantasy land in regards to this new rout and and opinions on it's merit. JMOP from my armchair;)
last summer a guy I know rap cleaned a rout @ my local crag. I knew darn well that he was not going to drill Ground up. I had allready passed on this rout because I felt it was going to be too hard and scary to drill on lead so I was pissed that these guys were cheating! I got all in a huff and went up and rope soloed a new rout about 20ft left of their project. It was hard scary and a total PINTA but I got it done despite one botched hole due to a broken bit (hand drilling) and another bolt is wicked hard and scary to clip as it's in bad spot for free climbing. Still it's a decent rout. I named it THE HARD WAY 5.10+ due to the effort and sweat that went into putting it up the hard way. Well to make a long story longer I ended up collaberating with the other guys and drilled some top anchors for them. We then top roped the piss out of their project. They eventually gave up due to the fact that they couldn't pull the roof so I brought my secret weopen (rope gun) up there and she got it on top rope. I felt that after all that top ropeing it would be downright stoopid (and scary) to go back up there and drill it on lead so there I was on a rap line with a power drill doing the nasty deed:) Named this one THE EASY WAY 5.10+ :) can you smell Sandbag............. the moral of that story is that your ways of thinking can and do change over time unless you are so darn stubborn that you can't learn anything new even if you are beat over the head with it.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Skinner, Holy Smokes! that thing looks like it would cut through your rope like butter!
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Tradman,
Bwahahaha!! That's a great story..
I'm definitely not super stubborn, it's how I survive.
Gawd, that first photo the dike looks like it goes on forever. That's one of the most stunning features I've seen.
Edit: Ken, I didn't remember that you were so badass!!!
It's been a long time....
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Nice story, Tradman. Nice and real and a relief from hypothetical speculating. And yes, positive. Sort of a morality tale in that fine old tradition.
Meanwhile, over on the "Death" routes thread tolman_paul mentioned ...routes get bolded into submission
A nice turn of phrase, even if unintentional.
I trust you all know that I am still deeply in favor of bold climbing. Practice it all the time. (All the time, that is, when I'm not quivering at the base, afraid to leave the ground. Practice that one fairly often too.) And I guess I don't "trust" that enough, actually, to keep from saying it out loud again, right here. This has been my first excursion into rap bolting. I too am still mulling over what it means. And the consequences.
The snow's melting, so I'll be walking the base of the South Face again soon, wondering with my feet if I can spy a line of holds that I can climb, and protect from the ground up.
If I don't -- and it is pretty blank, and sick slick, that wall -- If I don't, it'll still be a nice stroll and when I turn the corner there's always those lines next to the Snake Dike. I know I can get up those, from the ground. It'll be fun, and I can count on doin' the Elvis a bit on the runouts.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oh, I forgot to tell you that I got all in a huff and made a scene ( acted like an ass) before I gathered my kit of hammer, hand drill, hooks pins aiders and such and stomped up to the cliff only to come back a month later and do the very deed that I was so vemanantly protesting.......
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Holy crap, what a beautifully scary looking route!
Thanks for posting the pics, Ken.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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A NEW take on this (I think...)
I was in a post-coital bliss last night, when this thread came to mind. (If that isn't f'ed!)
If I read the R&I story correctly (now about five times), the route went up to a certain point where it was unclear what the best path forward was. At that point the decision was made to rap in. The first path upward was deemed a poor choice so Sean moved over a bit and found a better choice. However, even this path would require a 60-foot bolt ladder to connect the lower established part and the upper unclimbed portion. This bolt ladder was drilled on rap.
My question now is this: While still hanging on the rap rope and before drilling a single bolt, why not take a bearing of where the ladder needs to go, go back to the base and drill the ladder on lead? Since it is an aid bolt ladder there is no need to be hanging on for dear life while you drill; you can stand in aiders. Since you now know where you are going there is no concern that you will wander off route. And if the route had been drilled on lead this thread would be about 75 posts long... in other words most of the ethics guns would have remained holstered. Complaints could still be made about pre-inspection, but rapping a new route to clean and inspect is a far cry from rap bolting.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Or even better, make an application on line before this committee for permission...?
A very important part of climbing, after all, is universal acceptance from all of your peers!
LOL.
IHP - that is the funniest "spray" on the taco stand that I can remember. Anybody else done this? (Lately, I mean.)
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SteveW
Trad climber
State of confusion
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Just curious. What issue of R & I is the story in?
Anybody want to post it here? Thanks!
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Doug,
How would you feel about me scanning it and making it available to those who email me requesting it? That might help relay information to those who don't have it.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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This may become one of the 10 most highly scrutinized ascents in history!
I only wish the R&I story had less detail, so that there might be more speculation and conjecture.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Steve,
January 2008 #165. You can't miss the cover: Couple of guys working a new route on the South Face of some dome.
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SteveW
Trad climber
State of confusion
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Plastic
Thanks for the info!
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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IHP, you didn't mention whether or not it was aided...
;-)
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dear HatePlastic,
I think you're still confused (though you have a good excuse).
By the time we got to drilling the aid ladder we already knew from pre-inspecting that the free climbing above it would be runout to a death route standard and had decided that was an unacceptable kind of route, for us, to leave behind. So we went to work placing bolts for leading it, from the rap line we were hanging from.
Same with the aid bolts. It seemed trivial at that point how they went in and from which end. I actually put the first drill to that ladder, and it happened to be the top bolt of the ladder I drilled first cuz that's where I happened to be.
The big decision had already been made. Does this part even matter?
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SteveW
Trad climber
State of confusion
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I hope someone will be kind enough to post it--it's the
only issue not available on the archive of R & I. . .
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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TiG... Despite my BITD photo contests I am not as ancient as all that. Still able to "send it" whenever called to do so. Besides, I eat an entirely organic diet so artificial colors (blue or otherwise) are not allowed.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Posting it is fine with me, but I'm not sure about copyright. I'll check with the editors.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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DR. Thanks for the clarification. I guess in my daze I was hoping to find a new light on this subject so the next 400 posts would be less repetitious (and harsh) than the previous 600.
Steve, I'll try to scan it today and post. It is a few pages and R&I is an oversize format so it is a bit trickier but I'll give it a go. Check back later.
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