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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 18, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
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In the last 30 years, by far the largest mass killing in terms of numbers was the Rwanda Genocide in 1993. In a three month period, nearly a million people were shot, beaten, stabbed, and hacked to death.
At that time, there were hardly any Muslims in Rwanda. Among the perpetrators, the largest group were people who nominally considered themselves to be Protestant Christians. Since then, a lot more Rwandans have become Muslims. I guess they figure, "Well, being Christians didn't prevent us from hacking each other to death, so let's try Islam."
Robert Pape, a professor from Chicago University made the largest, most comprehensive study of suicide bombers. He found the largest group were the Marxist Tamil rebels in Sri Lanka. Of course, there were many Muslims, but also some Jews and Christians as well.
He found that the common elements were thoughts and feeling which were primarily political and secular rather than religious. If you look at the Orlando shooter, same thing. He was deeply disturbed, violence prone, etc. But in his posts, he talked about being angry with the U.S. meddling in Afghanistan, killing innocent people. Both the Koran and the Old Testament of the Bible have lots of killing and some genocide. But if you look at the various incidents, they were mostly disputes over who is entitled to the local real estate. The same thing continues to this day.
In the Old West, people often shot at and killed each other because of disputes over conflicting homestead rights and grazing privileges. What we see now is not all that different. It is just that modern technology and weaponry are making it progressively easier to kill larger numbers of people more rapidly.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 18, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
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I really think this guy was a lone wolf, like most mass murderers. This was not the act of ISIS or people of the Muslim faith. Just a really sick human committing a very sick hate crime.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jun 18, 2016 - 09:30pm PT
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I really think this guy was a lone wolf, like most mass murderers. This was not the act of ISIS or people of the Muslim faith. Just a really sick human committing a very sick hate crime.
I agree. The perp was a confused about his sexuality. His allegiance to ISIS was a convenient diversion. Of course trump, and the repubs bought into it.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Jun 18, 2016 - 09:49pm PT
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Just off the top of your heads,
How many here personally knew someone who was killed or harmed by terrorists here in the United States?
And how many here personally knew someone who was killed or harmed by gun violence here in the United States?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jun 18, 2016 - 09:58pm PT
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I believe the dude would have gone off the deep end regardless, because he was mentally ill...
He was also abusing anabolic steroids as part of his weightlifting regimen.
A friend of mine got into that stuff, and it made him so crazy, none of his friends (including me) could tolerate being around him. He had always had a really short fuse, but the 'roids caused him to spontaneously detonate without any kind of provocation or insult.
When I suggested that he stop taking the steroids, he became very angry, denied using them, and then threatened to kill me if I ever again said he was using steroids.
One time, he called up a Verizon store, and threatened to come down and kill everyone because of a dispute with his cellphone bill. The cops came and got him, and took away the two or three guns he had at the house, at the time. Most of his arsenal was in a gun safe at his friend's house, though. He simply denied having any more guns to the police. In actuality, he had about twenty more guns in that safe, including AR-15, HK-91, AK-47 and various auto-loading 12-gauge shotguns. Oh, and about ten pistols.
When he finally went over the edge, he downed a bottle of single malt scotch, and then shot himself in the chest, presumably so that his brain could be studied post-mortem.
He could have very easily decided to go on a lethal 'roid rage rampage before killing himself.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 18, 2016 - 11:04pm PT
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Last week we spent a night in a motel and so broke my 30 year long abstinence from straight up TV. I could not believe it. Fifteen minutes of ads interrupted by incidents of gross violence following no detectable story line. A second night of that and I would be in deep attention deficit disorder. Add drugs and I expect you have a path to madness across whole populations.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 18, 2016 - 11:24pm PT
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Bushy, my cousin ate a bullet when he was 20. in roseville.
bullet's have been man's solution to draw in a second the conclusion of death over life which evolution has taught us for sooo many years that "life must kill, inorder to survive". the war brewing now is over how many bullets im allowed to lop out per sec. but what about next yr when they put out an app for my iphone that puts out a raybeam that slices everyone in half, or stops their heart in a 50ft radius? Granted evolution through nature taught us killing to eat is ok, and doesn't require controversy within the conscience.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 18, 2016 - 11:33pm PT
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Last week we spent a night in a motel and so broke my 30 year long abstinence from straight up TV. I could not believe it. Fifteen minutes of ads interrupted by incidents of gross violence following no detectable story line. A second night of that and I would be in deep attention deficit disorder. Add drugs and I expect you have a path to madness across whole populations.
It's really disturbing isn't it? We haven't had cable tee-vee here for years and when I occasionally tune into a propaganda channel over the air it's quite alarming the BS that's broadcast now.
Orwell was a wise man.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jun 19, 2016 - 04:28am PT
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^^^^^^ +++++++
Orwell's Two Minute Hate is very similar to what Trump is inciting, as he jets from place to place.
The joke is, Trump stole Orwell's political notes, and is using them for his campaign strategy planning.
But, it's not a joke.
It's really happening, right now.
Trump has behaved as if Orwell's Memory Hole actually exists. Trump thinks he can simply make a statement that obliterates factual history. Trump's wikipedia page has been modified to remove information and facts that are unflattering to him. The removal of his ancestral name Drumpf is a conspicuous example.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 19, 2016 - 07:05am PT
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Just off the top of your heads,
How many here personally knew someone who was killed or harmed by terrorists here in the United States?
And how many here personally knew someone who was killed or harmed by gun violence here in the United States?
I wonder if we could expand on this excellent survey to include a few more data points.
How many here know someone that protected themselves with a firearm? Either via the threat of using one or actually using one?
How many on here know someone who felt safer at some point in their life because they had access to a gun?
When was the last time a terrorist took away your right or ability to do something in the United States?
When was the last time an elected official took away your right or ability to do something in the United States?
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
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Jun 19, 2016 - 07:13am PT
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Orwell's Two Minute Hate is very similar to what Trump is inciting, as he jets from place to place
On a similar note.... Majority of the posters on the political threads, remind me of Orwells Animal Farm. You know the self righteous pigs overthrowing the humans for their tyrannical treatment; consequently, evolving to be even worse.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 19, 2016 - 08:14am PT
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None of us will EVER experience a terrorist attack
or need a gun to protect ourselves and our family
It's all hyped up paranoia
nothing more
paranoia, fear, guilt, penis extender, morbid obsession with killing things, etc.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 19, 2016 - 08:33am PT
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I started a thread about the shooting and deleted it after about eight posts after Blue started his muslim crap without ever waiting to know what the facts were.
Just like Trump and the other haters ready to blame a religion for the acts of one.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jun 19, 2016 - 08:36am PT
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Just off the top of your heads,
How many here personally knew someone who was killed or harmed by terrorists here in the United States?
yes, in OKC, and Aurora
How many here know someone that protected themselves with a firearm? Either via the threat of using one or actually using one?
none
How many on here know someone who felt safer at some point in their life because they had access to a gun?
none
When was the last time a terrorist took away your right or ability to do something in the United States?
never
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 19, 2016 - 08:58am PT
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This guy was an American terrorist, plain and simple, just like the one who gunned down the folks in SC last year.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 19, 2016 - 10:41am PT
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Let's dissect cragman's post
first, you weren't there, so the gun did not protect YOU OR YOUR Family
second, there was an armed security officer, he was a good guy with a gun, he could not stop the slaughter and he was damn lucky that he wasn't first to be killed
third, I forgot what the third thing was
but with in this light, your post makes no sense
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 19, 2016 - 11:02am PT
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Can someone explain to me the importance of all the various modifiers people are trying hang off this individual? Muslim, American, ISIS, Lone wolf, etc.
He was a nutbag and he killed a bunch of people. EOL
Refer to Fear's list and carry on as you see fit.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 19, 2016 - 11:03am PT
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We are living in the most peaceful times in human history, most of the conflicts today are religious based and intolerance towards others and their beliefs.
What does the bible and Koran say about gays...it is disgusting.
"Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jun 19, 2016 - 11:18am PT
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Last year, the Confederate flag was responsible for 9 murders in South Carolina.
Since then, Islam has not been responsible for any murders in the U.S.
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