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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Quite off topic, but there are significant challenges with closing outdoor shooting ranges. 50+ years of lead deposited in an area (often well outside of or downrange from the actual property) can lead to major remediation problems. Likewise opening a new one, with the permitting required. The present one may be grandparented.
Cleaning up a closed rifle range is probably nothing like as hard as cleaning up a failed gondola, though.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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At least the Squamish shooting range confines the fireworks to one small safe area. Up until a couple of years ago, coming down from Zeke's Wall was like passing through a war zone. By mid-afternoon the ORV crowd would be good and drunk and blasting away at anything and everything. Some of them were reasonably safety conscious, but I often thought the first serious injury or death at Zeke's wouldn't be a climbing accident, but a gunshot wound.
Fortunately, the logging company with the rights to that area wasn't amused at the road degradation caused by ORV use, and then the DNR got upset about watershed degration caused by ORV use, and that was that. They simply shut off all access except by foot to the entire area.
It was pretty weird listening to the response from the ORV folk, who screamed that their god-given right to trash the world was being taken away from them by a bunch of big-city liberal environmental wingnuts. (This being the US, the insult they actually used was "Democrats.") The reality, of course, was that liberal environmentalists had nothing to do with it. Those idiots (the ORVers, not the liberal environmentalists) upset the lumber and fishing industries, and doing that in WA is no different than doing it in BC.
There may be something of relevance to the gondola debate in that story, btw.
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coastal_climber
Trad climber
Squamish, BC
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This just shows how much of a write off the sea to sky corridor is. F*#k sakes.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Here's the gist of what's in the legislation with respect to the gondola proposal:
Stawamus Chief Provincial Park - 2.36 hectares are being removed from the park. The area being removed will subsequently be established as Stawamus Chief Protected Area under the Environment and Land Use Act. This allows for the application of a Park Use Permit for a right-of-way through the park. BC Parks staff will review the application to assess environmental impacts.
Approximately 1.93 hectares are being added to the park as a result of Crown lands transferred to the ministry in 2008 from the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure for a closed road that was no longer needed as part of the Sea to Sky Highway Improvement Project.
Nothing about public hearings. BC Parks staff will "review" the application AFTER the land is removed from the park.
Anybody know anything about the land that's being added?
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Start looking for the bribes...
... this deal stinks up a storm!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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We all rip off the place for an income.
The income's point is to have an enjoyable instead of a miserable life. Government's primary purpose is to be the firewall between bad ideas and good ones.
Now that is some interesting thought.
"We all rip off the place for an income." Easy to forget, but so true. When people criticize "development" while still happily using TP to wipe their asses, or think they're better than you because they drink their coffee out of china cups instead of using paper (conveniently forgetting about the hot water and soap they're going to use when washing up), it's hard to take them seriously. We all do rip off the place for an income.
"Government's primary purpose is to be the firewall between bad ideas and good ones." In an ideal world, maybe. In the real world, governments are composed of people, not saints, and the operative response should be quis custodiet ispsos custodes. Anybody who thinks governments actually provide a firewall between good ideas and bad is abdicating their responsibility to themselves and their children and just begging to be seriously f*#ked over.
Edit: I forgot to say that those Italians that said F*#k You to the highway didn't get it exactly right. There are pluses and minuses. I lived for over twenty years in Vancouver, and have now lived for over ten in Seattle -- which has a superhighway running through it. In terms of livability, I'll take Seattle. I-5 may be a nightmare, but every time I visit Vancouver and try to drive somewhere on city streets, I realize that my nightmare is the better one.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Canada is competitive and somewhat relative on the globe because of our ease of insertion concerning someone else's earnest belief in making things better...
One of us has had too much to drink tonight, because that just doesn't make any sense at all.
Could be me, as I've had a couple of pints, but still... What would that mean if it was translated into intelligibility?
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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From Joe Public's point of view, the calamity over the 2004 gondola proposal partially paved the way for this recent one. That and TLC. So much fuss was raised over the gondola going up the Chief, and rightly so, nobody was seeing the bigger picture of the two amalgimated parks. To them it was the notion of a gondola ascending and summitting the Chief; it had nothing to do with placing a gondola in a park.
Joe Public and TLC shared a similiar thought that the new proposal would sit well with the climbers, as it was staying away from the Chief. Little did they know a percentage of that group still wouldn't be happy.
It is exceptionally difficult to keep everyone happy.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The Access Society's position in 2004 was in part that there seemed to be several viable alternatives. One was similar to that now proposed, but others were suggested. However, there was clear sentiment against a gondola, or any similar development, anywhere in the park or from the gravel pit. For that reason, when we met TLC in autumn 2004, we told them that the goal was to get the gravel pit off the market, and ensure that it could never be used for a gondola, or any similarly inappropriate development.
As you say, pro-development people might interpret this as leaving an opening, but it wasn't much of one.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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M,H., your paragraph is a tad conflicting. Shortly after you stated that you were good with a few alternatives, including the present one, you mention the gist of the plan calling for no gondolas from the gravel pit. Which one was it?
Perhaps the message you sent in 2004 was a little similar to your opening two sentences right now.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Christie has been sucking on Harpers dick so hard there has been a transfer of grey matter.
Gentleman start your pens and pencils, Canada is for sale and in some cases the price is nominal.
Get your proposals in early, get them in often.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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I am going to propose a strip joint up at Black tusk meadows
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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And apply for a logging permit in golden ears park
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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How about a casino up at Wedgemount Lake?
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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It's just like taking candy from a bigfoot...
I'll give you what ever you want in exchange for a piece of gravel road, which you dont even own, so we can sanctify it as parkland
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Not so fast - I've never had a thread go over 1,000 posts. Not even the "Climbing at Squamish in the 1970s" one. We can't just stop now. If nothing else, the legislation won't be passed until the end of May, plus there's going to be stuff in the news media this week.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Pretty f*#king tragic really. What is happening with government in Canada? The people are the enemy? Dismantle every institution built since the fifties?
I still control 1000. Might gift it to Anders.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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bmacd, you're not totally in control...
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Just dismiss some one as drunk and irrelevant from the safety of the other side of a border and you can attain relevance...
Not me Jim. No matter how many times I read what you had written, I just couldn't make any sense of it. One possibility is that you were drunk. Another is that I was drunker than I believed myself to be. Or, I suppose, you could simply have been communicating from a plane higher than those available to me.
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