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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Son of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg: Why We Must Fight to Protect WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x539505
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTZZFW380A
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLya_3TS9mc
As the U.S. Department of Justice considers charging WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange under the Espionage Act of 1917, we speak with Robert Meeropol, the son of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg—the only U.S. citizens to be executed under the Espionage Act, in what’s been described as the most controversial death sentence in U.S. history. This week, Meeropol released a widely read statement in support of WikiLeaks called, "My Parents Were Executed Under the Unconstitutional Espionage Act—Here’s Why We Must Fight to Protect Julian Assange."
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/30/son_of_julius_and_ethel_rosenberg
My Parents Were Executed Under the Unconstitutional Espionage Act -- Here's Why We Must Fight to Protect Julian Assange
The Espionage Act is a huge danger to our open society; it's been used to send hundreds of dissenters to jail just for voicing their opinions, transforming dissent into treason.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/149345/my_parents_were_executed_under_the_unconstitutional_espionage_act_--_here/'s_why_we_must_fight_to_protect_julian_assange/
It has come out now with a great amount of evidence, that Julius Rosenburg was innocent of Atomic Espionage. He leaked non-atomic information regarding non-atomic weapon systems or industry to our allies at the time, the USSR, during WW2. He did so at the time to help our allie defeat the Nazis.
His wife Ethel Rosenburg was innocent. She was not involved in anyway.
Our US Government knew this at the time. Ethel's brother-in-law and his wife were used to frame the Rosenburg's to save their own lives. Apparently, his brother-in-law/and wife were involved in atomic espionage. However, the Manhattan Project scientists had testified that it did not help the Soviets. The data leaked was very incomplete. The Soviets were working it out it on their own anyway, and were not that far behind already.
Guilty of espionage, but not guilty of Atomic espionage, and at the time he has trying to help our allies. Did this really warrant the death penalty by electric chair for the 2 of them? No it did not.
Is the death penalty ever warranted? Not in my opinion. When we do so we act as though we are GOD and have the final right to judgement. We do not have that right. Only GOD has that right.
Prison for X amount of years would have been the right moral call.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/149345/my_parents_were_executed_under_the_unconstitutional_espionage_act_--_here%27s_why_we_must_fight_to_protect_julian_assange
http://www.rfc.org/therosenbergcase
http://www.rfc.org/caseoverview
http://www.rfc.org/lastletter
http://www.rfc.org/56thanniversary
http://www.rfc.org/ourstory
http://www.rfc.org/robertsbiography
Book: Final Verdict
http://www.amazon.com/Final-Verdict-Really-Happened-Rosenberg/dp/1935554166/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293861822&sr=8-1
Imagine how we did this to the Rosenburg's, we put them to death, yet we brought Nazi War Criminals to the USA after WW2, through Project Paperclip, and they continued to live their lives building the American War machine and our space technology with relative peace and freedom.
We are hypocrites. Our sins, and the sins of our fathers is great.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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A few months back but interesting.
Interesting that many Swedish politicians are angry after documents revealed how, unknown to its parliament, Sweden’s military and secret services work with NATO and offer more assistance with the CIA than is legally decided in Sweden.
Sweden is a covert member of NATO and US intelligence sharing secretly. Not even the Swedish parliament knew until now. And when Assange sought residence in Sweden, the CIA threatened the government with cutting off its intelligence cooperation. SEPO has a special reason to want Assange out of the way.
An article by Israel Shamir and Paul Bennett (“Assange Bersieged,” Counterpunch, 14 September) noted that while Assange went to Stockholm hoping to shield WikiLeaks from legal persecution, ‘the moment Julian sought the protection of Swedish media law, the CIA immediately threatened to discontinue intelligence sharing with SEPO, the Swedish Secret Service.’
Which comes to one of the women “Anna Ardin” a 27 year-old anti-Cuba activist allied with US-paid so-called “dissidents” in Cuba that Assange was or is accused of raping. Anna Ardin was the person who invited Julian Assange to speak at the Stockholm meeting on August 14, hosted by the Christian Social Democrat Brotherhood organization. It turns out that Ardin has a brother who works in Swedish intelligence, and who was a liaison in Washington to U.S. spy agencies.
Swedish Secret Service/SEPO, which works with the CIA, woman who reports rape [condom broke] and brother is with SEPO? Hmmmm?
Guess just nothing but a strange coincidence?”
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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yup this whole affair is trite and overblown. it will be used as an excuse to raise a new threat, and therefore new funding to counter it
essentially a new excuse to fund more useless expenditures and more invasions of privacy
the nsa is marrying internet and terrorism itself to enable throwing the book at more people for less reasons
wikileaks is a most obvious co-intel-pro / sting operation
thanks for the links klimmer
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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If this doesn't boil your blood I'm not sure what will . . .
Turns out that Wikileaks has exposed that the US Government has funded pedophilia parties in Afganhnistan for a particular Afghan people or sect.
Either we are liberators and we are there to stop this kind of societal illicit abuse in certain cultures within Afghanistan or we are there for other corrupt and selfish motives.
Guess what? Since we did fund and some US Corporations organized these illicit pedophilia parties, we must be there for other corrupt and selfish motives.
Can you say elemental, mineral, and fossil fuel resource wealth?
Unreal.
In Case You Missed This... And THANK YOU Wikileaks !!!
'Dancing Boy' Scandal Taints Both Americans and Afghans
To win over Afghan locals, American contractor DynCorp bankrolled 'bacha bazi' parties -- the culturally accepted practice of pedophilia by men against boys.
By Shirin Sadeghi - AlterNet
December 28, 2010
<snip>
Every culture has its dark secrets, the practices that many people on the outside would frown on or shudder at. There’s Mormons and polygamy. Hindus and sati. Muslims and virgin brides. And many other cultures that have very specific practices associated with them.
The list is endless but it's also not comprehensive. Not all Mormons practice polygamy -- in fact a comparatively few percentage of them do. The same for Hindus and sati or Muslims and virgin brides. Over time, increased awareness of these issues and any problems associated with them, has led to laws that provide rights to the victims of these practices. But even more effective than laws are social changes. Society's rejection of these practices are a more powerful enforcement against them than laws can ever be, it seems. Which is why public awareness is critical to changing these practices from the ground up.
This week, the WikiLeaks cables publicized another culture's dark secret: the Pashtuns and bacha bazi, the ancient practice of pedophilia by men against boys. Not all Pashtuns practice it, but like other dark secrets in other cultures, it is an inescapable fact that it exists and is strongly associated with Pashtuns.
When the issue arises, so does the sensitivity. No one wants their culture to be known for a horrible thing. But the subject cannot and should not be avoided. Bacha bazi -- literally "playing with children" -- is practiced amongst Pashtuns in Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere. Not all of them do it, but it is acceptable among certain sections of Pashtun culture, which is why it is openly practiced. And also why, as the WikiLeaks cables demonstrated, the American contractor DynCorp took advantage of the practice to appease local Pashtuns in an area of Afghanistan in which they needed to rein in the locals to be able to continue their work there.
It was very easy for DynCorp to bankroll bacha bazi parties for those local Pashtuns who practice it. They arranged for the boys to be purchased, for the venue, and for the guests who would attend the party. Some Pashtuns came. They saw. And they partied.
Children were abused on American military dollars. The cables are undoubtedly an embarrassment to the war effort. Whereas previously bacha bazi was used in the media to stress the necessity of the war effort – "these people need to be liberated," so the theory went – the WikiLeaks cables have completely reversed that notion. Americans are clearly not liberators if they are promoting child abuse instead of preventing and prohibiting it.
<snip>
More: http://www.alternet.org/world/149352//'dancing_boy/'_scandal_taints_both_americans_and_afghans
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Rolfr
Sport climber
North Vancouver BC
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It seems ridiculous that we are still shooting the messenger.
Wikileak receives it information from anonymous sources and publishes what the informant believes is import information that should be shared , not suppressed.
Yes like always you will have to decide yourself if the information is a personal vendetta, mud slinging or actual news, but the important issue is the constitutional freedom of the press and it’s right to protect it’s sources.
Denying freedom of expression and or freedom of speech is by far the more important constitutional issue. We are all open to examination since post 911,including embarrassed government officials, but silencing the electronic media whistle blowers is simply repressive.
Remember that the charges against Julian Assange are still only allegations until proven in a court of law. Spreading disinformation and leaking unsubstantiated information has always been an effective way to silence opponents. Until he has had his day in court, I will reserve my judgement.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Interesting piece from slashdot
http://www.techspot.com/news/41889-leaked-us-government-strategy-to-prevent-leaks.html
Leaked: US government strategy to prevent leaks
By Emil Protalinski, TechSpot.com
Published: January 7, 2011, 1:30 PM EST
The US government's 11-page document on how to get various US government agencies to prevent future leaks has been leaked to MSNBC. It doesn't get any more ironic than that. After the various leaks made by WikiLeaks, the US government understandably wants to limit the number of potential leaks, but their strategy apparently isn't implemented yet. Here's the crux of the memo, which was sent this week to senior officials at all agencies that use classified material:
"Each initial assessment should be completed by January 28, 2011, and should include the following with respect to the attached list of self-assessment questions:"
1. Assess what your agency has done or plans to do to address any perceived vulnerabilities, weaknesses, or gaps on automated systems in the post-WikiLeaks environment.
2. Assess weakness or gaps with respect to the attached list of questions, and formulate plans to resolve the issues or to shift or acquire resources to address those weaknesses or gaps.
3. Assess your agency's plans for changes and upgrades to current classified networks, systems, applications, databases, websites, and online collaboration environments as well as for all new classified networks, systems, applications, databases, websites or online collaboration environments that are in the planning, implementation, or testing phases - in terms of the completeness and projected effectiveness of all types of security controls called for by applicable law and guidance (including but limited to those issued by the National Security Staff, the Committee on National Security Systems, the National Institute for Standards and Technology).
4. Assess all security, counterintelligence, and information assurance policy and regulatory documents that have been established by and for your department or agency.
It's clear that the Obama administration is telling federal agencies to take aggressive steps to prevent further leaks. According to the document, these steps include figuring out which employees might be most inclined to leak classified documents, by using psychiatrists and sociologists to assess their trustworthiness. The memo also suggests that agencies require all their employees to report any contacts with members of the news media they may have.
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Jan 15, 2011 - 07:43am PT
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excellent discussion by three different high powered panels was covered by c-span on criminal law, national security and the first amendment
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/event.php?id=187658
this was an october 29 event, if it has been referenced somewhere deep in this thread and i missed it, my apologies
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 15, 2011 - 10:39pm PT
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So today is the tenth anniversary of the start of Wikipedia. (I didn't want to start a separate thread.) Founded on January 15th, 2001 by Larry Sanger and Jimmy Wales.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 17, 2011 - 06:21pm PT
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41102350/ns/business-world_business
Swiss banker hands secrets over to Wikileaks
Says with offshore account information he hopes to draw attention to abuses in industry
By Olesya Dmitracova and Chris Vellacott
updated 1/17/2011 12:58:16 PM ET
Share Print Font:
LONDON — A former Swiss private banker handed over data on hundreds of offshore bank account holders to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange on Monday, saying he wanted to draw attention to financial abuses.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 21, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
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Comrades,
I have now attended two expert panel discussions on the subject at UCLA:
WikiLeaks - Part I: Implications for National Security and US Foreign Policy
DALIA DASSA KAYE is a senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation
ROBERT TRAGER is an assistant professor in the political science department at the University of California, Los Angeles. His research focuses on how states form beliefs about the intentions of other states, and in particular on the role of diplomacy.
AMY ZEGART is an Associate Professor at UCLA's School of Public Affairs, a Fellow at the UCLA Burkle Center for International Relations, a Visiting Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and an Advisory Board member for the FBI Intelligence Analysts Association. Zegart has been featured by The National Journal as one of the ten most influential experts in intelligence reform.
In this panel, one clear theme was that one should view the information with a certain amount of doubt: The source of information might be providing a biased view, the writer of the cable might be writing a biased interpretation....and that both things OFTEN happen, and that in the field, such things are read with this in mind. One cannot read a cable that says "Saudi Arabia wants Iran taken out", and think, AHA, now we know the truth! Truth is elusive, and reading these cables that Wikileaks is releasing is not a path to truth.
There was a split in the panel about damage, and if this created significant damage to the US diplomatic effort.
Tony Bird also attended, and he may have additional/different thoughts.
Full video and audio:
http://www.international.ucla.edu/burkle/calendar/showevent.asp?eventid=8611
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 21, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
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WikiLeaks - Part II: Will WikiLeaks Transform American Diplomacy?
GEOFFREY COWAN: Geoffrey Cowan is a University Professor at the University of Southern California where he holds the Annenberg Family Chair in Communication Leadership and directs the Annenberg School’s Center on Communication Leadership & Policy. He is also the first President of the Annenberg Retreat at Sunnylands which the Annenberg Foundation created as a world-class venue for important retreats for top government officials and leaders in the fields of education, philanthropy, the arts, culture, science and medicine. From 1996 to 2007, Professor Cowan was the dean of the USC Annenberg School for Communication & Journalism. Before coming to USC, he served as Director of the Voice of America and Director of the International Broadcasting Bureau. In other public service roles, Cowan served on the board of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, chaired the Los Angeles commission that drafted the city’s ethics and campaign finance law, and chaired the California Bipartisan Commission on Internet Political Practices.
DEREK SHEARER: Stuart Chevalier Professor, Diplomacy and World Affairs at Occidental College. Prior to his tenure at Occidental College, Shearer served in the Clinton administration as an economics official in the Commerce Department, then as ambassador to Finland (1994-97). He also was a visiting Woodrow Wilson fellow and ambassador-in-residence at a number of colleges. He served as a foreign policy advisor to Vice President Al Gore during the 2000 presidential campaign and as an advisor to Sen. Hillary Clinton during the 2007-08 presidential primaries.
I actually found this panel to be more illuminating than the first.
Ambassador Shearer greatly clarified the information being released: The Cable system is an anachronism, generally used for low-level information transfer, and NEVER used for Secret or Top-Secret communications.
All cables from an embassy are "signed" by the Ambassador, although he thinks that less than 5% are ever read by the Ambassador. They are written by low-level staffers, often as a response to various Congressional and legal mandates. ALL cables are addressed to the Sec of State. Virtually none of them are read by the Sec. In fact, some Sec's have a policy against reading ANY of them. It is questionable whether a significant proportion are every read by ANYBODY.
So, these are written by low-level staffers, filled with agenda driven opinions and bias, and not involved in Administration decision making, for a long time.
The Ambassador stated that when he wanted to get something done, or if something was important, he picked up the phone, or wrote an email in some circumstances.
Prof Cowan added significant perspective about the process. He felt that irrespective of the disposition of Wikileaks specifically, that the information flow would never be shut down.
By the way, BOTH strongly felt that the US strongly benefitted by the release, particularly the State Dept.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Jan 21, 2011 - 08:11pm PT
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Ken M
Thanks for the links. Not surprised, knew can/can't trust State Dept. Good to have around sometimes but best to be on your own. Works every time.
Looking forward to next session III
Legal implications which were brought up during first session addressed it well. Will see if the US will bring him here for trial? Doubt it.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 21, 2011 - 08:17pm PT
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Ron, yes. Both thought that it showed the State Dept to be professional in it's actions, and generally a good diplomatic corps. Very little that could be considered subversive action in other countries, or that would make others uncomfortable.
Yep, plan to be at session III
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Jan 21, 2011 - 08:54pm PT
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Ken
Correct about being professional in its actions, and generally a good diplomatic corps. Problem is other agencies Pentagon, CIA, our Policy makers in Washington and right down to the President that sometimes they will not listen because of a hidden agenda.
You can count on them for stopping or delaying further aggression and sometimes it works because they know more than the people above. They have in the past and currently doing that. As for Hawks they are not, just looking for a peaceful way out to make things work.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 22, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
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Thanks, all!
And Hooblie, thanks for that link!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 23, 2011 - 11:57am PT
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http://apnews.excite.com/article/20110123/D9KU4TA00.html
LONDON (AP) - Nearly two months after WikiLeaks outraged the U.S. government by launching the release of a massive compendium of diplomatic documents, the secret-spilling website has published 2,658 U.S. State Department cables - just over 1 percent of its trove of 251,287 documents.
Here's a look at what the consequences of the cables' release has been so far, and what the future could hold for WikiLeaks.
IT'S LIFTED THE VEIL ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
IT'S SHOWN HOW LEADERS LIE
IT'S SHAKEN U.S. DIPLOMACY
----------------------------
I would advocate, based upon the panels I've attended or watched, that the above is written by a reporter who doesn't know what he is talking about. As you read through his example, it is clear he doesn't understand the cable system.
I would also mention that on at least one panel, they mentioned that it was pretty clear that WL had "cherry picked" what they had released. As such, it is likely that the biggest impact stuff is already released, and the rest of the stuff is administrative drivel.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 23, 2011 - 12:08pm PT
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One other thing I'd meant to mention that was discussed in the second panel I attended....both panelists cautioned that no one really understands what the WL motives are.
They discussed in some depth other situations:
-Daniel Ellsberg, who both know, and who'd attorney was in the audience. When he released the Pentagon Papers (which WERE classified), he freely gave himself up for prosecution. Ellsberg acted more in the mold of MLK, break the law and take the consequence. Passive resistance. Assange has not done that.
-When the Iranians took the hostages in the Carter administration, the press knew the identities of the CIA officers in captivity. They made a deliberate decision not to release that information, which would have resulted in the immediate torture and execution of those people. It is not clear that Assange would make the same decision.
In his fantasy world, Roxjox would have celebrated seeing those Americans having their fingers and heads cut off, but in the real world, we were better off not having that information.
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