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raymond phule
climber
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The aid climbing ethincs in Catalonia, Spain and Europe are widely agreed, and I guess you won't find any difference in their opinion (it's very funny to think that Pelut inspired himself when he repeated Intifada; drilled holes and other tricks are older than aid climbing itself, and the ethics about that is really clear in Europe).
What do you mean? I am from europe and have done some aid climbing in europe and USA and I had european friends that aid and free climbed at a high level at many places in the world.
The aid climbing ethics I know about are really skeptical about drilling at all and drilling holes to put heads in them where considered really bad style.
Do you say that drilling holes and putting heads in them and later pulling the heads are good style in Spain and the rest of Europe? Is it a common practice in Spain?
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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European you? Really? Impossible if you are a climate change skeptical...
No, it isn't at all a good style, although sadly you can find them in some routes in Europe (added after FA) as you can find them in Yosemite...
So, is a good style to drill bathooks and batheads even in a FA (more than 130 if I'm not wrong)? If you drill, you fill? Always? In what cases?
Why do you accept than Oju peligru! had drilled heads when Richy didn't even know how to use the gear? Because, as an European, do you know how a wood wedge is used? Have you ever placed a lead head?
So many questions, my friend, but no crticism towards Jensen's actions...
Do you like shinning bolt ladders and anchor chains in the Fishers?
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raymond phule
climber
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European you? Really?
Yes as I had said before, why do you believe that I mostly post between 7 and 22 CET? I believe that you would be taken a little more serious if you listen to other people instead of immediately listen to your prejudice.
No, it isn't at all a good style, although sadly you can find them in some routes in Europe (added after FA) as you can find them in Yosemite...
So, is a good style to drill bathooks and batheads even in a FA (more than 130 if I'm not wrong)? If you drill, you fill? Always? In what cases?
Why do you accept than Oju peligru! had drilled heads when Richy didn't even know how to use the gear? Because, as an European, do you know how a wood wedge is used? Have you ever placed a lead head?
So many questions, my friend, but no crticism towards Jensen's actions...
Do you like shinning bolt ladders and anchor chains in the Fishers?
So it is not good style in Spain but you still seem to defend the style when Pelut used on the fisher towers. It really hard to understand what you mean sometimes.
You change the subject as usual.
You still do not understand that at least some of the holes where blown out and couldn't be used anymore.
Changing the subject once again to what Jensen did.
Why don't you just admit that Pelut's route seems to have been done in very bad style?
No, I have never used a wooden page och lead head maybe because all my aid climbing have been in granite. I just doubt that you could say much about European aid climbing ethics because I believe that the ethics are likely different all over Europe. I doubt that you for example know a lot about the aid climbing that has been done at the granite cliffs in northern Norway. I am not sure but I believe that the aid climbing ethics in northern europe has had more influences from Yosemite than Spain.
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raymond phule
climber
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Impossible if you are a climate change skeptical...
Your edit.
What are you talking about? Have you read some of my posts on the forum and thought I where skeptical to climate change? Do you believe that there are no people that are skeptical to climate change in Europe.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Do you know the name of your European country? If you write at night on internet doesn't mean you write from Europe... I live in Barcelona, but you cannot know that for sure... I could be writing from Bozeman (Montana) at midnight... And about climate change, I heard about a single European guy who were a climate change skeptic. Were you!
The thing is that you trust Jensen, a thing that I do not.
And according to Crusher's report, no drilled holes in Hot parad'ice. Jensen drilled more than 130 holes in WOS but he can drive to Mohab, belive that he climb LOD and get an ovation. My God!
Trollveggen has been a common destination for wall climbers all around Europe... Camí dels somnis was a FA from a catalan team...
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raymond phule
climber
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What can I say? I just advice you to try listen to other people instead of trying to put everything into your preconceived world view based on your prejudices. You seems to claim that I am an American because I disagree with your posts... You think that people disagree with the way Pelut put up his route simple because he is from europe...
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raymond phule
climber
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I really do not understand why people continue to edit there post after they had posted it the first time. You need to read it several times to find all information
"And about climate change, I heard about a single European guy who were a climate change skeptic. Were you!"
What the hell are you talking about? There are still many Europeans that are skeptical to climate change. What about Swensmark, Hudlum (or something similar).
About the troll wall. Is it common to drill holes and fill in copperheads or lead heads in them on the trollwall? The trollwall is neither in northern norway.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Thanks for your advice!
No, I just know that you don't say where you are from, and yes, I say that there are big perjudices against non-american aid-climbers and even with an american aid-climbers considered as foreigners in some places. The most ironic thing is that Jensen did in the Towers what he has tried to show for the last 30 years...
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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No, in Troll wall is not good to drill batheads, as it isn't anywhere around Europe. Some people have done that and do that, in FA, SA, and so on as you can see even in Yosemite and as the same Jensen did on WOS...
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raymond phule
climber
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I have said that I am from Europe and I would say that is enough information and it is consistent with everything I have written on this forum. There is no reason that you would start to believe me more if I gave you more details. You have already shown that you do not believe what other people say.
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raymond phule
climber
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Why do you talk about Jensen all the time?
You have said that batheads are bad style in europe. It is clear that batheads where used on Peluts route (clearly seen in pictures (also peluts own pictures) but you seems to be unable to put together those two facts and say that Pelut's route where done in bad style.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Yes, I do belive what Crusher says, what Paul and Jeremy says, when its a first hand information...
And sorry for the edit, but as long as English isn't my mother language, I edit the post for changing some mistakes.
But, do you really trust Jensen version?
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raymond phule
climber
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Yes, I trust Jensen version much more than your version. I don't believe that anyone that have been there and seen the route say that there are not a lot of drilled holes that have been filled with heads.
The editing really isn't about changing the language but written whole new sentences and paragraphs.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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But if Jensen find a wood piece and doesn't know wtf is! And begins to elucubrate about that, when simply is a wood wedge for a piton! A A1 technique in Europe!
I do not see drilled holes since you can place lead heads in places that a copper or an alu wouldn't work, but even if they were, don't you think the most rational thing would have been repeat the route as FA made or bail and explain that? It's a matter of respect!
Who is Jensen to go there and do what he did when himself made more than 130 drilled holes on his own route? If I follow the same ideas, next week WOS should be a shinning bolt ladder! Don't you see the contradiction? And don't you see teh hate and perjudice in the first 100 of this tread?
Steve made the SA of Hot Parad'ice and he enjoyed. He sais he wouldn't have done the route like the FA team, but he respected it, made a supertopo trip report and even an AAJ article.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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And the comment denying to have a meet with Pelut to talk about it?
Erased? I cannot belive!
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raymond phule
climber
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But if Jensen find a wood piece and doesn't know wtf is! And begins to elucubrate about that, when simply is a wood wedge for a piton! A A1 technique in Europe!
Yes, he made a mistake about those.
I do not see drilled holes since you can place lead heads in places that a copper or an alu wouldn't work,
There are round holes seen in the pics.
but even if they were, don't you think the most rational thing would have been repeat the route as FA made or bail and explain that? It's a matter of respect!
Once again. The holes where blown out and couldn't be used to climb the route. Yes, he could have bailed and I believe that he should have but then should you and pelut only have said that the climbing above where much better and that he bailed because he was not good enough.
Who is Jensen to go there and do what he did when himself made more than 130 drilled holes on his own route? If I follow the same ideas, next week WOS should be a shinning bolt ladder! Don't you see the contradiction?
This is just a redhearing that is irrelevant to this route.
And don't you see teh hate and perjudice in the first 100 of this tread?
No, I see not much prejudice. I see people being angry about what they can see in Jensen pictures. I don't know why you think prejudice is necessary part of that.
Steve made the SA of Hot Parad'ice and he enjoyed. He sais he wouldn't have done the route like the FA team, but he respected it, made a supertopo trip report and even an AAJ article.
Yes, and it is a possibility that that route was done in a much better style than pelut's first route.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Because Jensen was never good enough for that route, Raymond!
He didn't know wtf wood wedges were and he also failed with lead heads.
When you clean up a leadhead, it usually gets round because you need a chisel to remove the whole lead (that's why you see the rounded holes and Pelut with a chisel on youtube video; and a chisel it's also needed to place them; so if you see a man with a chisel it's because he's gonna place-put out a lead). But you can use them again! But Jensen went there with all his prejudice and his ego of "A6 rating killer", saw the rounded holes and thought "these f*#king spaniards are a cheats". They've useing alu or coppers and destroyed the holes once on the anchor. When he found out the wood, thought the same, it's still written in his webpage (maybe will be erased soon). So, instead of try to keep in touch with the FA team and ask for information, he acted like a dumbass, a thing that nobody seems to recognize...
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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And now, don't come back saying that leads are not sustainable. Coppers or alu aren't neither. I remember a good tread of Mark Hudon explaining his point of view about deadheads, the placements of a head vs microcams, etc.
It happens also in pitons A2 routes. You see the original topo and the route today, and instead of the bunch of blades of the topo, you'd better bring a bunch of big angles or bongs...
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raymond phule
climber
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So you once again have the view that drilling a hole, place a lead head, use a chisel to remove the lead head such that the hole get even larger, is a good and sustainable way to aid climb?
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